Afos final attempt to

[languagesolutions]

Interesting post from Town Hall, Mike this morning re AFOs

Quote   The original purpose of an AFO was to gain tittle deed to an illegally built house outside the urban areas, the cheap route of an AFO could be said to make it beneficial as costing far less than planning permission, architects drawings etc, therefore it could be said to encourage illegal building, It is clear that whilst the process of building illegally is financially beneficial it will be an attractive alternative, this said it is clear there needs some adjustment in costs to illuminate these benefits in the future.
   The AUAN and PP have now negotiated the application of these alternatives to First occupation in urbanizable areas bringing a fast route to gaining tittle deed to properties and land without waiting for a project of urbanization, which in many areas has not been started, although this is not the same as having first occupation as it states that the property is accepted as not fully legal, it will be a welcome move forward for many people in areas without urban projects in sight, finally giving them a short cut to gaining long awaited property deeds freeing them from the stress of having no ownership proof.
   In Arboleas we have a long running urban project, in some of the 21 areas we are at the point of Parcelization (second stage of PERI) where land deeds get issued, this is the point where land is seeded to the town hall and urban costs are meet, the final stage is where any missing urban infrastructure is put in place with funds arranged in the previous stage and the land is made fully urban consolidated (in a town hall pleno) and first occupation licences can be issued, this certificate states the property is fully legal and fit to live in, this certificate can then be used to gain deeds to the house giving the owner tittle deed to a fully legal house and land.
   We now have in Arboleas the ability to short cut this process with an AFO bringing joy to many that do not want to wait for the urban process to take its course. The big question is will the PERIs continue? the PERIs will continue and once these projects are fully approved the houses with AFOs will be able to apply for first occupation licences making their houses fully legal so everyone is a winner.
   We can all see now the benefits of being able to have an AFO, there appears to be no downside, however the builders can also see these benefits, as I have explained in stage two of the PERI the land is seeded and costs are met, these include removing embargoes and settling payments where land has not been paid for etc to enable ownership with no underlying problems. This makes for an interesting short cut for builders, some of  whom are already reluctant participants in the legal process, some are already petitioning their clients to go down the AFO route.
    Conclusion is the benefit of having the availability of an AFO is likely to create further delays in the legal process as not only owners opt for this less complicated short cut, but builders too, as much as owners want a quick solution so do builders freeing them from responsibility, so now I hope we have a better understanding of the downside.  Unquote

Some facts on this board, thank you.

[freddie]

Thank you Maura, most definitely confirms what I thought.

[Roger]

The comment from Mike and the town hall is interesting.

It confirms that an afo is a valid short cut.

However there are questions which this report doesn't answer.

It states that builders will welcome the afo route because they will not have to pay for legalization.
But how many builders have agreed to pay?
Only promar because there is client money held in escrow accounts.
Does anybody believe any other builders will pay?
Some where does that leave the urbanization process?
The town hall is suggesting that it will be slowed or blocked.

Then there is the question of the cost of the afo.
The town hall has said that they must by law add around 3000 euros to cover potential future urbanization costs.
Will the town hall give a reference to the law, because the lawyers can't find it!

Finally will the town hall publish the town hall regulation giving details of how the cost of the afo is calculated.
So far everything is vague.

[Maura]

Freddie......In general terms the AFO is the instrument that very precicely describes what you claim ownership of in terms of the house and the plot.  An AFO is also the legal instrument that can be used to segregate land at the land registry thus allowing your property and land to be registered in your name. Should take no more than a few months to obtain one if your town hall is not placing obstacles in your path.

With AFO in hand your lawyer will draw up the paperwork (escritura) which will be signed by all interested parties before a Notary Public and registered at the Land Registry.  In drawing up the escritura the lawyer will deal with embargos, negotiations with other interested parties etc on your behalf. How easy or how complicated this step will be will depend on individual circumstances and legal advice should be taken before going down this route.

At the end of the process you get a plot of land with a property registered on it in your name. 

If the property is subsequently made urban, whoever owns the property at that time will be asked to pay their share of the costs.

Its an option for you to consider with appropriate legal advice but not to debate on forums.

[Tetley]

Not bad advice Mr. Tetley..... do your sums and make your own mind up. 

Bit rude to accuse people who have worked for a decade to provide solutions to homeowners of AfO flogging but it is a bit hot today and people are cranky.

I would add to your valid point, the first one, not the rude one :) ...

- To my knowledge AFO applications have been submitted in Arboleas. The town hall continues to play silly buggers at the applicants expense but their lawyers and the courts will sort that out if needs be. For a change, the homeowners have the laws on their side (your welcome for that btw)

-Houses in Arboleas are very popular for those who wish to continue to live in England  and Innovacion 14 houses are selling for realistic prices "as is" to those wishing to get a foothold in Spain before the Brexit transition period ends or to those looking for a holday home. Speak to an estate agent.

-Innovacion 14 is taking too long but no matter, the owners are tunnelling out, one way or another, without permission whilst the debate continues here.

At the end of the day, people will ignore everyone and go for what suits them best.

just look at it Maura as another point of view from a very FIRM supporter of both yourself and the  AUAN  of the last 15 years plus  and defiantly no rudeness intended 

[freddie]

i am thinking  I am a bit thick but perhaps Maura or Edni can answer this question. If you live in a calle where the land is split into parcels and you have no catastral number (other than a number that covers three streets) how can you get an AFO individual to your property , does the builder sign over the land to you to get AFO and to confirm you have paid all monies owed to him- If monies are owed for embargoes etc who becomes responsible for that the AFO owner or the builder or will this portion of money come back to bite you on the bum at a later date. If your builder doesnt sign over the land to you how can you ever own it as surely you are just piggin backing off the back of the land owner - unfortunately us mere minions get mighty confused by all this going round the houses.  The AFO sounds a great idea but do you ever actually own on the land your property sits on and do you get the full escritura at the point the AFO is completed or if not when do you get full title to the land.

I know this is longwinded but its very confusing when you hear different opinions without them being legally sound.

[Maura]

Not bad advice Mr. Tetley..... do your sums and make your own mind up. 

Bit rude to accuse people who have worked for a decade to provide solutions to homeowners of AfO flogging but it is a bit hot today and people are cranky.

I would add to your valid point, the first one, not the rude one :) ...

- To my knowledge AFO applications have been submitted in Arboleas. The town hall continues to play silly buggers at the applicants expense but their lawyers and the courts will sort that out if needs be. For a change, the homeowners have the laws on their side (your welcome for that btw)

-Houses in Arboleas are very popular for those who wish to continue to live in England  and Innovacion 14 houses are selling for realistic prices "as is" to those wishing to get a foothold in Spain before the Brexit transition period ends or to those looking for a holday home. Speak to an estate agent.

-Innovacion 14 is taking too long but no matter, the owners are tunnelling out, one way or another, without permission whilst the debate continues here.

At the end of the day, people will ignore everyone and go for what suits them best.

[San Juan]

Interesting post from Town Hall, Mike this morning re AFOs

Quote   The original purpose of an AFO was to gain tittle deed to an illegally built house outside the urban areas, the cheap route of an AFO could be said to make it beneficial as costing far less than planning permission, architects drawings etc, therefore it could be said to encourage illegal building, It is clear that whilst the process of building illegally is financially beneficial it will be an attractive alternative, this said it is clear there needs some adjustment in costs to illuminate these benefits in the future.
   The AUAN and PP have now negotiated the application of these alternatives to First occupation in urbanizable areas bringing a fast route to gaining tittle deed to properties and land without waiting for a project of urbanization, which in many areas has not been started, although this is not the same as having first occupation as it states that the property is accepted as not fully legal, it will be a welcome move forward for many people in areas without urban projects in sight, finally giving them a short cut to gaining long awaited property deeds freeing them from the stress of having no ownership proof.
   In Arboleas we have a long running urban project, in some of the 21 areas we are at the point of Parcelization (second stage of PERI) where land deeds get issued, this is the point where land is seeded to the town hall and urban costs are meet, the final stage is where any missing urban infrastructure is put in place with funds arranged in the previous stage and the land is made fully urban consolidated (in a town hall pleno) and first occupation licences can be issued, this certificate states the property is fully legal and fit to live in, this certificate can then be used to gain deeds to the house giving the owner tittle deed to a fully legal house and land.
   We now have in Arboleas the ability to short cut this process with an AFO bringing joy to many that do not want to wait for the urban process to take its course. The big question is will the PERIs continue? the PERIs will continue and once these projects are fully approved the houses with AFOs will be able to apply for first occupation licences making their houses fully legal so everyone is a winner.
   We can all see now the benefits of being able to have an AFO, there appears to be no downside, however the builders can also see these benefits, as I have explained in stage two of the PERI the land is seeded and costs are met, these include removing embargoes and settling payments where land has not been paid for etc to enable ownership with no underlying problems. This makes for an interesting short cut for builders, some of  whom are already reluctant participants in the legal process, some are already petitioning their clients to go down the AFO route.
    Conclusion is the benefit of having the availability of an AFO is likely to create further delays in the legal process as not only owners opt for this less complicated short cut, but builders too, as much as owners want a quick solution so do builders freeing them from responsibility, so now I hope we have a better understanding of the downside.  Unquote

[Tetley]

i think yer all wearing yer selfs out AFO floggin...... my advice

get some proper advice and stack the number,s

if yer doing the AFO  in your later years to make it easier for the family once you have gone and its not going to cost a fortune to do,give it serious thought if the numbers stack.

if your doing it to flogg on,and its going to cost yer 1000,s and wipe yer saving out,hang on till at least next year to see how depressed the housing markets gets once the EU/UK  economics picture becomes more clear.

[Edni]

Time to look through the smoke and mirrors, as Tetley said a long time ago. Look at the thread of Rodney.

[languagesolutions]

As usual Ben Bamford is given false information.

The pp junta has not stopped legalization.
What they have done is to widen the option of obtaining an afo as a quicker alternative.

Yes I did quote the cheaper cost of an afo in arboleas.
That was before the mayor decided to use it as a money making scam by increasing the cost.
But it's still cheaper and a lot quicker than waiting for legalization.

As for the Web site Ben is recommending.
This is a Dutch guy based in Majorca who is charging a fortune to do what?
No qualifications and no knowledge of Andalusian planning law.
Why is Ben promoting this guy?

‘Promoting’? False information? Just advising people to find out the bigger picture.

We’re now looking at people having to pay 10,000â,¬ to become ‘alegal’ and believe you me, there WILL be extra costs for them or the poor ones who buy there property to be ‘legal‘.

Jellybaby and co: I totally understand your situation and that you are grateful to the people that are selling and taking advantage of this situation. Sadly, as we will see in time, an AFO is a quick fix, not a solution. Albox is not Arboleas and it really is a shame how the PP and our local advisors are ruining a village that was an example to the whole of Andalucía of how to build legally.

[shadeseeker]

I am grateful to Maura too. Now we are officially segregated  and have all the paperwork.
It has taken a lot of stress off our shoulders.  So glad we went down the afo route. We are in Albox.

[Jellybaby]

I for one are very grateful for all the hard work Maura & the AUAN did to make the AFOs possible, thank you x
Jellybaby

[Roger]

As usual Ben Bamford is given false information.

The pp junta has not stopped legalization.
What they have done is to widen the option of obtaining an afo as a quicker alternative.

Yes I did quote the cheaper cost of an afo in arboleas.
That was before the mayor decided to use it as a money making scam by increasing the cost.
But it's still cheaper and a lot quicker than waiting for legalization.

As for the Web site Ben is recommending.
This is a Dutch guy based in Majorca who is charging a fortune to do what?
No qualifications and no knowledge of Andalusian planning law.
Why is Ben promoting this guy?

[Maura]

Rodneys post is accurate and relevant for Arboleas . https://arboleas.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=132511.0

I for one recommend that you read it.

[Jellybaby]

I presume Language Solutions your house is totally legal, if so you are very lucky. We sold our house with an AFO & it wasn’t as expensive as people are quoting on the forum, we needed to go back to the U.K. so it was good for us, there was no problem with the land registry everything went through smoothly with the help of Amanda Oakley, Gerard the solicitor & the lovely Notary in Vera, we can’t thank them enough.
Jellybaby

[languagesolutions]

Search on this forum for all the threads opened by Roger and Co, myself and others (be quick, they’ll probably disappear...wouldn’t be the first time) and you will see how this supposed scam was orchestrated.

The PP decided to sabotage legalisation and go for the easy AFO botch plan. According to our expert Roger, an Afo was going to cost less than 1000â,¬; now, we’re looking at around 10,000â,¬ for the full process.

And knowing how these cowboys work, there will be another scam coming to take even more money off current and future owners.

Also: ask Ralf from www.casapropia.es about it all, he’s a knowledgeable guy with no political ties as far as I know

[Roger]

This is a very serious issue for many people in arboleas.
Unfortunately ls is determined to try to confuse the situation.

First I suggest that people read the latest post above by Rodney.
It answers a lot of questions.

Second.
There are two choices for people.
To wait for a change in the law isn't a choice.
The town hall has urbanized the land.
That's it.
There is now the process to complete the legalization process.
This is taking a long time, with no idea if it will ever be completed.
It will also be very expensive for the house owner, as has been explained.

The other option is to get ownership documents with an afo.
Not a perfect solution but it will be very quick.
It will be expensive but estimates are that for most it will be a bit cheaper than the legalisation process.

A very bad situation either way.
Innocent house owners are being financially punished, by the junta using the process set up by the previous Psoe junta government, and now by the Psoe mayor of arboleas.

You can either wait for legalization (if it ever happens) and pay a lot of money.
Or you can get your documents quickly at a slightly cheaper cost and accept that there could be a future problem to expand the property.

Individual choice.