Legality of property and Estate Input

[lmj52]

Can someone help me, our friend brought an house in Albox 4 years ago and was told that it was fully legal and had all the paper work, he as now gone back to the same Estate argent he bought it from to sale it and been told he now needs a AFO, because the law has changed and all house even fully lagel ones need a AFO to sale, is this true? Because I thought an AFO we're only for illegal homes to make them as legal as possible to sale.

I was told if you have an LFO, then you don't need an AFO.
But as this is Spain who knows.

[Lady Luck]

Can someone help me, our friend brought an house in Albox 4 years ago and was told that it was fully legal and had all the paper work, he as now gone back to the same Estate argent he bought it from to sale it and been told he now needs a AFO, because the law has changed and all house even fully lagel ones need a AFO to sale, is this true? Because I thought an AFO we're only for illegal homes to make them as legal as possible to sale.

[Amanda Oakley]

Hi

Thank you once again Rod for your kind words.
Philomena.... I am happy to assist if I can but would suggest you email me at info@aloservices.es
I have been open about what I do and have given a fair amount of information based on my experience in this area and the properties I have dealt with that needed AFOs but, am still unclear on who or what you are ????
I am not meaning to cause offence but would love to know who I am dealing with ????
Regards

[Rod]

One answer to this, contact Amanda Oakley, she will set you straight on costs and will get you through the AFO process for a very very reasonable fee. I know, she did ours, would not have had anyone else.

[packard]

So ok, where does this leave properties in Arboleas included in inn.14 if the "owner" wises to sell.
Thanks to a certain political party whose view is that you should not encourage people to break the law, they cannot get an AFO. According to the mayor they are now legal properties.
With no escitura agents I have spoken to are not interested. Would they be breaking the law if they marketed the property?

[philomena]

Hi

Hope you can help, we are collating all the AFO related costs, many owners in this area have contacted us asked what it is going to cost them in total,  you mentioned you are dealing with sales and purchases in this locality thus you must be the equivalent of a conveyancer in UK, I do know of qualified conveyancers and we used one in UK and he was first rate had far better communication skills than the solicitors we'd previously used and he knew property law well, do they have conveyancers in Spain? my research says conveyancers do not exist in Spain they have solicitors specialising in property? do you know what a conveyancer would charge in Spain and what do you charge? do you know what the solicitors in this region charge to deal with the AFO, one couple mentioned they knew of another couple who had paid their abogado 12500 in legal fees to try and secure legality of their property, finally what do the notaries charge to deal with this AFO scenario?     Thus many of these poor souls who have been told they need an AFO are having to pay again for the solicitor and notary plus of course the land registry etc..  We are investigating if the abogado/a notary can be held liable for their failure to provide accurate information, in UK we have the law society as a safety net, based on the information I have received to date I think I would be inclined to use a conveyancer or equivalent   especially having learned about the 12500 that couple paid.

[philomena]

Hi Philomena

In my experience, if the property is on rustic land and needs  to be "regularised" with an AFO, as a rough guide, based on cases I have seen to date, the costs will be as follows (approx)
Architects Certificate - €450 to €700
Cost of a septic tank - €1,200 to €1,800 (depends on the size of the property I believe)
Town Hall costs - applied per m2 of constructed area and therefore variable - In this area, they also vary from Town to Town - I have seen a few in the Albox area which can be €1,000.00 but, in Huercal Overa, the taxes are higher.......

If the Title Deeds need to be updated to include the constructions, then you also have to allow for 1.5% tax on the declared value as well as Notary and Land Registry fees.

Apologies for the delay in replying to you I returned to the office on Monday and have been trying to get up to speed in this neck of the woods.   Thank you for sending the AFO information it is appreciated, one lady has everything updated on her escritura via her habitation licence, that is a point we all queried, the habitation licence was signed off by the town hall architect, the land and the construction size details are stated in that declaration, thus we all fail to comprehend why she needs an AFO, the other couple who need to get back to UK because her mother is ill, my boss has agreed to fund the AFO for them thus why I needed to know all the costs?   Can you tell me what  the Abogada and Notary would charge them for the Escritura to be corrected,  finally what are they charging for land registry these days?   I have handed over the files to date to the team my boss has agreed to continue the investigation, this has opened a HUGE can of worms.   All the best, I will be in touch

quote]

[Amanda Oakley]

Hi Philomena

In my experience, if the property is on rustic land and needs  to be "regularised" with an AFO, as a rough guide, based on cases I have seen to date, the costs will be as follows (approx)
Architects Certificate - €450 to €700
Cost of a septic tank - €1,200 to €1,800 (depends on the size of the property I believe)
Town Hall costs - applied per m2 of constructed area and therefore variable - In this area, they also vary from Town to Town - I have seen a few in the Albox area which can be €1,000.00 but, in Huercal Overa, the taxes are higher.......

If the Title Deeds need to be updated to include the constructions, then you also have to allow for 1.5% tax on the declared value as well as Notary and Land Registry fees.

I hope this is of use.
Regards

[philomena]

I don't actually believe a word of what you a claiming Philomena and I very much doubt a UK newspaper would risk naming and shaming your list of Almeria Estate Agents just on your evidence. I am confused about you as in another topic you claim to be the vendor of the property without an AFO, so make up your mind please.

AFO 22.October Hi from Philomena
I have been reading these reports and this proposed TV programme, has anyone applied for this AFO, this morning I have been told we need one by the abogado we saw this morning if we want to sell our house, I learned the architect will be charging us almost 2000 euro to confirm the build and land size and also the house has electric, despite all this information being on the escritura.   The year after we bought we had to have the land measured by a Topographer as result of land size discrepancies, we also had to have a new escritura at a huge further cost because the solicitor we used to buy the house did not pick up on it!   I have also been told we could need a new septic tank, does anyone know what these cost, also can I avoid having all this expense and just sell the house.   I need help here because we just do not have this money.

The first person who approached me about this AFO does not own a computer or smart phone and has no idea about chat rooms etc, I offered to write the query for her hoping someone would give her the answer, I had not realised I had stumbled on a HUGE issue, so far we have received 17 reports from people reporting houses they bought were illegal, so far there are 4 people who paid deposits and learned the properties were illegal, two had huge problems having their deposit refunded and the Estate Agent knowing the property was illegal advertised it again the following day.   Did not the chap mention on this reported issue 13 years on and he still does not have legal documents, yes it has opened a can of worms, there will be some having sleepless nights I would, also the proof is in the pudding.    have been advised to ensure the illegal properties and the actions of the agents are reported accurately, the paper will not take chances thus we must be 100% before putting pen to paper especially given some involved have significant wealth to fight in the courts if we report and name inaccurately, which is why all has to be 100%  and backed up with the evidence in writing and on tape and signed,  So whether you believe or not  is your  prerogative.   I do not think 17 people can get it wrong, have a good nights sleep!

[mimosas]

I don't actually believe a word of what you a claiming Philomena and I very much doubt a UK newspaper would risk naming and shaming your list of Almeria Estate Agents just on your evidence. I am confused about you as in another topic you claim to be the vendor of the property without an AFO, so make up your mind please.

AFO 22.October Hi from Philomena
I have been reading these reports and this proposed TV programme, has anyone applied for this AFO, this morning I have been told we need one by the abogado we saw this morning if we want to sell our house, I learned the architect will be charging us almost 2000 euro to confirm the build and land size and also the house has electric, despite all this information being on the escritura.   The year after we bought we had to have the land measured by a Topographer as result of land size discrepancies, we also had to have a new escritura at a huge further cost because the solicitor we used to buy the house did not pick up on it!   I have also been told we could need a new septic tank, does anyone know what these cost, also can I avoid having all this expense and just sell the house.   I need help here because we just do not have this money.

First you don't have the money for your AFO and then a poor lady wanting to get back to the UK to look after her elderly mother doesn't have the money for her AFO resulting in some kind sole agreeing to stump up the money for an AFO.

[Tetley]

This may bring some clarity to the discussion:

Making Good Irregular Properties with AFO/DAFO/RAFO in Spain
22 August 2018   | www.mylawyerinspain.com

"Our work as lawyers in Spain is most rewarding when clients come with seemingly impossible problems and we are able to solve them with reference to a new and fair law.  This has been the case when people who purchased country properties many years ago have since found that in planning terms they were little more than farm buildings or cottages on a dirt track.  In many cases 'owners' have had buyers ready but were not able to produce the legal documentation and could not proceed, or, more often, the buyers backed out.

Realising that this was not the fault of the owners, more that of historical mistakes in the registration system, the Andalusian government passed Decreto 2/2012 to permit the regularisation of isolated residential properties located on land designated as rustic by issuing a certificate recognising these properties. This certificate is known as an AFO, DAFO or RAFO depending on the Town Hall and area.  After the approval of the above Decree, all the different town halls have drawn up their own regulations for the issuing of this certificate and the tax to pay to obtain the certificate ranges from 2% to 6% of the cost of the build of the property.

After an official survey of the property is completed, an application is made to the Town Hall who, after investigation, may issue an administrative certificate stating the legal situation of the property as being "fuera de ordenación" , out of regulation or that the extensions or property were not anticipated in the Town Hall plan.  This allows the owner to live without fear of demolition and to sell the property and pass on the ownership rights.  

It is necessary to prove that no existing files for breaches of planning permission exist, prescription of any irregularities and that the property is not located in protected areas or liable to flooding.  It is also necessary to prove that the buildings are habitable with adequate health conditions and to agree that no extension works will occur beyond the existing boundaries.  

The AFO Certificate does not change the legal situation of the property, or add any extra rights to the existing ones.  In fact once the certificate is issued, the owners can only maintain and conserve the property and cannot extend the property. What it does is to allow thousands of houses to leave a situation of legal limbo and be recognised as sufficiently legal to sell, making them more attractive to potential buyers and that has to be a positive aspect of the regulations being introduced in the Town Halls.

In practical terms the AFO can be obtained within a period of 6 weeks to 6 months depending on the town hall. If the AFO process is clear and it will be granted, then the costs of the AFO can be deducted from the purchase monies allowing a buyer to enter the property whist the AFO process completes"

Thank you for this it is appreciated, we spoke to a couple on Saturday and your suggestion of the AFO being deducted from the purchase price was agreed, but they were sensible and said they would rent until the document had been issued, fortunately they were advised to pay a visit to the town hall where discovered the AFO information was inaccurate thus the document was not issued, tell me what the couple would have done had they purchased, also we cannot comprehend how a sales transaction can be completed without the full documentation?

People buy and sell on a private contract ,its gon on for years,i believe you can also register the contract on the public register..but again you need correct legal advice.

[philomena]

This may bring some clarity to the discussion:

Making Good Irregular Properties with AFO/DAFO/RAFO in Spain
22 August 2018   | www.mylawyerinspain.com

"Our work as lawyers in Spain is most rewarding when clients come with seemingly impossible problems and we are able to solve them with reference to a new and fair law.  This has been the case when people who purchased country properties many years ago have since found that in planning terms they were little more than farm buildings or cottages on a dirt track.  In many cases 'owners' have had buyers ready but were not able to produce the legal documentation and could not proceed, or, more often, the buyers backed out.

Realising that this was not the fault of the owners, more that of historical mistakes in the registration system, the Andalusian government passed Decreto 2/2012 to permit the regularisation of isolated residential properties located on land designated as rustic by issuing a certificate recognising these properties. This certificate is known as an AFO, DAFO or RAFO depending on the Town Hall and area.  After the approval of the above Decree, all the different town halls have drawn up their own regulations for the issuing of this certificate and the tax to pay to obtain the certificate ranges from 2% to 6% of the cost of the build of the property.

After an official survey of the property is completed, an application is made to the Town Hall who, after investigation, may issue an administrative certificate stating the legal situation of the property as being "fuera de ordenación" , out of regulation or that the extensions or property were not anticipated in the Town Hall plan.  This allows the owner to live without fear of demolition and to sell the property and pass on the ownership rights.  

It is necessary to prove that no existing files for breaches of planning permission exist, prescription of any irregularities and that the property is not located in protected areas or liable to flooding.  It is also necessary to prove that the buildings are habitable with adequate health conditions and to agree that no extension works will occur beyond the existing boundaries.  

The AFO Certificate does not change the legal situation of the property, or add any extra rights to the existing ones.  In fact once the certificate is issued, the owners can only maintain and conserve the property and cannot extend the property. What it does is to allow thousands of houses to leave a situation of legal limbo and be recognised as sufficiently legal to sell, making them more attractive to potential buyers and that has to be a positive aspect of the regulations being introduced in the Town Halls.

In practical terms the AFO can be obtained within a period of 6 weeks to 6 months depending on the town hall. If the AFO process is clear and it will be granted, then the costs of the AFO can be deducted from the purchase monies allowing a buyer to enter the property whist the AFO process completes"

Thank you for this it is appreciated, we spoke to a couple on Saturday and your suggestion of the AFO being deducted from the purchase price was agreed, but they were sensible and said they would rent until the document had been issued, fortunately they were advised to pay a visit to the town hall where discovered the AFO information was inaccurate thus the document was not issued, tell me what the couple would have done had they purchased, also we cannot comprehend how a sales transaction can be completed without the full documentation?

[philomena]

If an agent is advertising an illegal property, Don,t mess about, name them, they are breaking the law.
The list will be long,
[/quote

Thank you for your input, we will be name the agents that is 100%,  we must ensure that we are 100%, once we have learned about the illegal property we must do all the checks, the UK newspaper interested in the publishing of this issue have insisted we verify 100% and when we send the list which is growing daily and they have been verified, there are others involved in this who are advertising these homes thus we must be 100% of the facts and we will be.

[PhillipJLloyd]

If an agent is advertising an illegal property, Don,t mess about, name them, they are breaking the law.
The list will be long,

[mimosas]

This may bring some clarity to the discussion:

Making Good Irregular Properties with AFO/DAFO/RAFO in Spain
22 August 2018   | www.mylawyerinspain.com

"Our work as lawyers in Spain is most rewarding when clients come with seemingly impossible problems and we are able to solve them with reference to a new and fair law.  This has been the case when people who purchased country properties many years ago have since found that in planning terms they were little more than farm buildings or cottages on a dirt track.  In many cases 'owners' have had buyers ready but were not able to produce the legal documentation and could not proceed, or, more often, the buyers backed out.

Realising that this was not the fault of the owners, more that of historical mistakes in the registration system, the Andalusian government passed Decreto 2/2012 to permit the regularisation of isolated residential properties located on land designated as rustic by issuing a certificate recognising these properties. This certificate is known as an AFO, DAFO or RAFO depending on the Town Hall and area.  After the approval of the above Decree, all the different town halls have drawn up their own regulations for the issuing of this certificate and the tax to pay to obtain the certificate ranges from 2% to 6% of the cost of the build of the property.

After an official survey of the property is completed, an application is made to the Town Hall who, after investigation, may issue an administrative certificate stating the legal situation of the property as being "fuera de ordenación" , out of regulation or that the extensions or property were not anticipated in the Town Hall plan.  This allows the owner to live without fear of demolition and to sell the property and pass on the ownership rights.  

It is necessary to prove that no existing files for breaches of planning permission exist, prescription of any irregularities and that the property is not located in protected areas or liable to flooding.  It is also necessary to prove that the buildings are habitable with adequate health conditions and to agree that no extension works will occur beyond the existing boundaries.  

The AFO Certificate does not change the legal situation of the property, or add any extra rights to the existing ones.  In fact once the certificate is issued, the owners can only maintain and conserve the property and cannot extend the property. What it does is to allow thousands of houses to leave a situation of legal limbo and be recognised as sufficiently legal to sell, making them more attractive to potential buyers and that has to be a positive aspect of the regulations being introduced in the Town Halls.

In practical terms the AFO can be obtained within a period of 6 weeks to 6 months depending on the town hall. If the AFO process is clear and it will be granted, then the costs of the AFO can be deducted from the purchase monies allowing a buyer to enter the property whist the AFO process completes"

[philomena]

We have put our property on the market recently and have been told by every estate agent that we have talked to that you need an AFO. We have been through this procedure and could not have put it on the market without.
Amanda was a huge help in all this so if you have any doubts she will sort it for you as she did for us.

Hello we are going through all the replies we received and it appears we did not acknowledge your comments, apologies and thank you so much for your input.   Can you tell me why you needed the AFO?   We have just sent a message to the lady who assisted you, thus you will know what  the exacts costs were, can you forward the information ASAP please, we have received an offer to pay for the AFO for the couple who need to sell and return home to care for her mother, this information is urgent.

[philomena]

The agent we are with told us we MAY need an AFO and MAY need to change the Pozo, but it all depends on the Buyers abogado !!! Town hall Oria   said that the AFO and Sceptic would not be needed !!!

Apologies for not acknowledging your input, thank you, can you confirm why the agent thought you may need an AFO?   

[philomena]

Well said Philomena.......
I am curious to know a little more about you and am also not an Estate Agent.
I have been dealing with conveyancing in this area since 2004 (I AM NOT A SOLICITOR AND DO NOT PRETEND TO BE)
The market place in this area is very active and I am dealing with an increased number of properties that need AFOs....... in most cases, the sellers do not know what the requirements are and in fact, do not even realise that their properties may need to be "regularised" and as such, spend a lot of time, advising of the requirements.

Do you mind me asking what your interest is in this area ????
Regards 

You mentioned you have been advising on AFO's, can you help us on this please, what does the vendors need to pay the town hall?   What will the Architect cost?  This has baffled us because in the bundle one couple had their habitation licence which was signed off by the architect who the previous owner paid, all the plans etc and measurements are in the bundle, I cannot comprehend why they have to appoint the same architect to confirm everything again and pay him a further 500 euro?    What exactly will a septic tank cost?    We have been speaking to a chap who heard about this scenario and he has offered to foot the bill for the couple who need to get home as their mother is very ill - it has been confirmed she needs their help.   One person did reply on this site claiming he had just had it completed the AFO we asked for the costs etc and he did not reply?

My interest in this area - I have friends living here, during one of their gatherings I met several individuals who have fallen foul to the illegal property status, I was asked to help and in doing so ascertain why the Estate Agents in this locality are advertising their homes knowing they cannot sell them, plus fail to comprehend why they are not alerting the unsuspecting owners, it does not make sense, the Estate Agents demand the title deeds IBI receipts etc etc, from the vendors.   One Agent claimed to be sending the deeds etc to an abogado for verification, yet they  did not tell him their home is illegal and cannot be sold, the agent began advertising their home the day after they handed over the title deeds etc, this does not make sense, another couple contacted the first agent two years ago to date they are on their 4th agent and not one viewing, no one said his property is illegal and cannot be sold, when he queried no viewings he was told,, "REDUCE THE PRICE", on current trends they will be paying someone to move in, can you tell me what is going on?.   So far we have come up with " the agents want to appear to have a HUGE selection of properties implying their popularity", I know they have a high opinion of themselves but no one could think they are popular.   on the contrary, I would be suspicious as to how they can remember all those properties, I have an excellent memory and no way could I remember all the properties I have seen online during the last couple of days.  To date I have established: misleading advertising which is illegal even here in Spain, given many of these property hunters go to the agents from: Rightmove etc these properties should not be offered for sale until such time they are legalised, tell me why do you think the Estate Agents do this???  I have instructed a team to check ALL COUNTRY properties in this area and check if they are on Urban or Rustic land, thank god for google, it is going to be a huge task because we know the Estate Agents will not offer any support, but I will expose them for what they are doing to many unsuspecting pensioners is nothing short of disgraceful, I would be horrified if anyone did this to my grandparents etc.   I look forward to hearing from you.

Well said Philomena.......
I am curious to know a little more about you and am also not an Estate Agent.
I have been dealing with conveyancing in this area since 2004 (I AM NOT A SOLICITOR AND DO NOT PRETEND TO BE)
The market place in this area is very active and I am dealing with an increased number of properties that need AFOs....... in most cases, the sellers do not know what the requirements are and in fact, do not even realise that their properties may need to be "regularised" and as such, spend a lot of time, advising of the requirements.

Do you mind me asking what your interest is in this area ????
Regards 

[Rtis]

The agent we are with told us we MAY need an AFO and MAY need to change the Pozo, but it all depends on the Buyers abogado !!! Town hall Oria   said that the AFO and Sceptic would not be needed !!!

[philomena]

We have put our property on the market recently and have been told by every estate agent that we have talked to that you need an AFO. We have been through this procedure and could not have put it on the market without.
Amanda was a huge help in all this so if you have any doubts she will sort it for you as she did for us.

Can you tell me which agents told you you needed the AFO because if there is an honest one out there we must make others aware of who to use, as they say recommendations say it all.   I have seen all the business cards given to this couple from the agents, they dated them which made it easier for us to find the advertised copy and provides the hard and fast evidence, as I said their home was with 4 agents over a 2 year period and not one of them advised this couple needed an AFO, they all advertised the property for sale, we have found the adverts.   This morning I received an email about a couple who agreed to rent a house whilst waiting for the AFO which did not materialise, they struggled to have their deposit refunded, the property IS ILLEGAL, the day after they moved out the Estate Agent put it back on the market!     

[Tetley]

We have put our property on the market recently and have been told by every estate agent that we have talked to that you need an AFO. We have been through this procedure and could not have put it on the market without.
Amanda was a huge help in all this so if you have any doubts she will sort it for you as she did for us.

exactly.

[Rod]

We have put our property on the market recently and have been told by every estate agent that we have talked to that you need an AFO. We have been through this procedure and could not have put it on the market without.
Amanda was a huge help in all this so if you have any doubts she will sort it for you as she did for us.

[Malcolm]

Maybe they do but you know I don't have papers 13 years on.

[mimosas]

Especially for you Malcolm...  You know full well I was an Agent but am now happily living and refurbishing a property in Rural France. Doesn't mean I can't stick up for the local agents who do a very good job on the whole.

[jb]

Hi.I think all you are doing is stirring the shxx and will make selling even harder for the people and as someone has said you don't even live here so pack your bags and go back to where you come from we don't need you here .

[Tetley]

Are you sure you are not an agent mimosas?

Hello Malcom
My thought entirely!


UPDATE

I posted this information on several ex pat sites and have just received a reply from an un-suspecting couple who only learned this week the house they are in the process of buying is ILLEGAL, they discovered it when the drove past the property and queried why the skip and digger were there, then the agent told them they need an AFO!  I am waiting for their permission to quote who did it! Cat and pigeons comes to mind...........Are there many job opportunities in Albox?

so job done then,if yer floggin check out wi yer legal person wether yer need an  AFO,and if yer buying ask yer legal person to check wi tuwn hall ect wether yer need an AFO on the casa yer buying....

job done happy ending this is loads better than an episode of  Marcella 

[philomena]

Are you sure you are not an agent mimosas?

Hello Malcom
My thought entirely!


UPDATE

I posted this information on several ex pat sites and have just received a reply from an un-suspecting couple who only learned this week the house they are in the process of buying is ILLEGAL, they discovered it when the drove past the property and queried why the skip and digger were there, then the agent told them they need an AFO!  I am waiting for their permission to quote who did it! Cat and pigeons comes to mind...........Are there many job opportunities in Albox?

[Malcolm]

Are you sure you are not an agent mimosas?

[Tetley]

Philomena, why are you so bothered when you don't own a property in the area.  Are you just another Estate Agent basher.  

Thank you for your reply, no I am not an Estate Agency Basher, I was asked to try and help some of the people I met at a social gathering!   When you are confronted with a lady who is in uncontrollable floods of tears because I had just told her what is going on regarding the sale of her property, what would you do Ms/Mr/Mrs Mimosas, this lady has been trying to get home because her mother is very ill, some of us do have a heart?    Perhaps you can tell me why Estate Agents accept properties onto the files which cannot be sold, why do they not tell the owner the property cannot be sold?    They are going to have to do so soon because I am making it my mission to expose them and trust me I will!

but surley.... common sence dictates that befor you think abought marketing your home ,you get your lawyer to check out if  the home is currently sale complient.....ie for your own peice of mind and so that your ready for some smart arse trying to dib the price down after agreeing the price.

laws here change...monthly

my kid is training to be an Abogardo now on a masters degree,he spent 2 years studying and been exmined on the criminal code....passed the exams.... and then they changed the criminal code,so people rely should be checking out there own situation...BEFOR  they go to the open market with there home,that way they no they have the I,s dotted on the T crossed for there own peice of mnd.

[philomena]

Philomena, why are you so bothered when you don't own a property in the area.  Are you just another Estate Agent basher. 

Thank you for your reply, no I am not an Estate Agency Basher, I was asked to try and help some of the people I met at a social gathering!   When you are confronted with a lady who is in uncontrollable floods of tears because I had just told her what is going on regarding the sale of her property, what would you do Ms/Mr/Mrs Mimosas, this lady has been trying to get home because her mother is very ill, some of us do have a heart?    Perhaps you can tell me why Estate Agents accept properties onto the files which cannot be sold, why do they not tell the owner the property cannot be sold?    They are going to have to do so soon because I am making it my mission to expose them and trust me I will!

[mimosas]

Philomena, why are you so bothered when you don't own a property in the area.  Are you just another Estate Agent basher. 

[Tetley]

But if your bothered why not just market your own propertys on right move ect,you dont have to use an Agent or a lawyer to buy and sell in spain.

i bought my house in a bar ... no agents and i just got a lawyer to draw up the papers and off we all went to the Notary,job done.

[philomena]

Well said Philomena.......
I am curious to know a little more about you and am also not an Estate Agent.
I have been dealing with conveyancing in this area since 2004 (I AM NOT A SOLICITOR AND DO NOT PRETEND TO BE)
The market place in this area is very active and I am dealing with an increased number of properties that need AFOs....... in most cases, the sellers do not know what the requirements are and in fact, do not even realise that their properties may need to be "regularised" and as such, spend a lot of time, advising of the requirements.

Do you mind me asking what your interest is in this area ????
Regards 

My interest in this area - I have friends living here, during one of their gatherings I met several individuals who have fallen foul to the illegal property status, I was asked to help and in doing so ascertain why the Estate Agents in this locality are advertising their homes knowing they cannot sell them, plus fail to comprehend why they are not alerting the unsuspecting owners, it does not make sense, the Estate Agents demand the title deeds IBI receipts etc etc, from the vendors.   One Agent claimed to be sending the deeds etc to an abogado for verification, yet they  did not tell him their home is illegal and cannot be sold, the agent began advertising their home the day after they handed over the title deeds etc, this does not make sense, another couple contacted the first agent two years ago to date they are on their 4th agent and not one viewing, no one said his property is illegal and cannot be sold, when he queried no viewings he was told,, "REDUCE THE PRICE", on current trends they will be paying someone to move in, can you tell me what is going on?.   So far we have come up with " the agents want to appear to have a HUGE selection of properties implying their popularity", I know they have a high opinion of themselves but no one could think they are popular.   on the contrary, I would be suspicious as to how they can remember all those properties, I have an excellent memory and no way could I remember all the properties I have seen online during the last couple of days.  To date I have established: misleading advertising which is illegal even here in Spain, given many of these property hunters go to the agents from: Rightmove etc these properties should not be offered for sale until such time they are legalised, tell me why do you think the Estate Agents do this???  I have instructed a team to check ALL COUNTRY properties in this area and check if they are on Urban or Rustic land, thank god for google, it is going to be a huge task because we know the Estate Agents will not offer any support, but I will expose them for what they are doing to many unsuspecting pensioners is nothing short of disgraceful, I would be horrified if anyone did this to my grandparents etc.   I look forward to hearing from you.

[Amanda Oakley]

Well said Philomena.......
I am curious to know a little more about you and am also not an Estate Agent.
I have been dealing with conveyancing in this area since 2004 (I AM NOT A SOLICITOR AND DO NOT PRETEND TO BE)
The market place in this area is very active and I am dealing with an increased number of properties that need AFOs....... in most cases, the sellers do not know what the requirements are and in fact, do not even realise that their properties may need to be "regularised" and as such, spend a lot of time, advising of the requirements.

Do you mind me asking what your interest is in this area ????
Regards 

[philomena]

I have been reading all reports etc on this forum about the property market in and around Albox, Arboleas etc and decided to put pen to paper, I live near Barcelona and have significant property experience and knowledge, no I am NOT an Estate Agent.    in 2016 the Spanish Authorities declared all properties built on rustic land illegal unless you have the AFO.

When  a property owner contacts some of the Estate Agents in Albox and Arboleas etc to sell their home, the agent will insist on a copy of the Escritura, IBI etc, once they have these documents the Estate Agent will know if the property is legal,  many agents claim to  send the documents to a solicitor to have them checked and despite having been told by the solicitor the property is illegal and they do not inform the vendor, they market the property.  They advertise the property on their own website, they advertise your property on A Place In The Sun and Rightmove plus sites in France, The Netherlands, Denmark etc.,   Many vendors do not have any viewings on their property because the agent knows they will not be paid because the vendor does not have the AFO thus why should they escort prospective buyers to a property which will not have its new documents for at least 6 months, thus they will not receive their commission for some time, I do not know any Estate Agents who work Pro Bono.   Why do they do this?   The more properties they have on their website the bigger choice they have for the unsuspecting buyer who does not know the properties he/she  is interested in are ILLEGAL, when the vendor calls the estate agent about no viewings, the agent has the temerity to suggest he/she reduces the price, they do not tell the vendor they need the AFO, when one agent did tell the vendor they needed the AFO the agents advised they use their solicitor, their architect, their septic tank installer, their Energy Certificate provider and their solicitor and their notary.   Those vendors who have well decorated and cared for properties but are illegal provide great advertising for the Estate Agents, many of these vendors live outside of Spain and are relying  on the Estate Agent to sell their home, there are pensioners living in Spain and need to return home, do any of the agents have a heart - I think not
When I was looking at Estate Agents websites I failed to comprehend how they could remember all the listings on their files, I would prefer an agent who has fewer legal properties, but if these agents removed all the illegal properties on their files, they would reduce their listings significantly, some agents have hundreds of listings and it is impossible to remember them all.   I am going to contact Country Wide in the UK - owners of Rightmove, for their feedback on these findings and will also secure feedback from  A Place in The Sun before I go to The Guardian asking them to take up this story, if anyone has any information please do contact me via PM if you prefer, we need to fight back and the more evidence I have this can be stopped.