DID YOU KNOW?

[beemer]

after a cock up with wifes padron  recently   we just went to the town hall last friday  asked for a form to add to  electoral roll       girl behind desk gave us form    filled it in while there  passed back to receptionist   with passport  she copied passport and form
job done
please all do it

[enjay]

Maybe things have changed since the days that they volunteered this service but having completed and returned

my form I was still not on the electoral  register at the last local election.

I am trying to find out how I can make sure I am on the next one. For instance, can the form be downloaded?

Can it be returned to somewhere other than the local town hall? Is there a way of checking the electoral register

to see if you're on?

[Mercurian]

Perhaps now that more people have become interested in being involved, it would be a good time to provide all the information we need to at least become eligible to vote and I bet that alone would make a few of these complacent beggars in the ajuntamientos wake up to the fact that we have had enough of their lies and deceit.

To become eligible to vote I had to fill in a form at the Ayuntamiento when I applied for a Padron the first time.

[enjay]

I do know that merely applying for a vote does not work whether you are on the padron or not.

I have used information, supplied at the time of the last election by Lenox Napier, and I made it known to the number one of one of the parties that I was interested in being involved and subsequently submitted my application for a vote on what was alleged to be the correct form.

None of this got me on the electoral register.

On similar topics as this I have asked if someone with the necessary knowledge would spell out exactly what we have to do and what follow up is necessary to ensure that the applications are not just binned again. No help was forthcoming.

Perhaps now that more people have become interested in being involved, it would be a good time to provide all the information we need to at least become eligible to vote and I bet that alone would make a few of these complacent beggars in the ajuntamientos wake up to the fact that we have had enough of their lies and deceit.

[Geminis]

Maybe the only way to get people to register is a house to house to inform them of the issues, some may not have computers and therefore do not read the forums or even see the local papers.  Hopefully they will then understand and register themselves to vote!!!!!!!!!!

[jonaileen]

Perhaps after registering to vote we could give our details to Roger who, if he's not too busy, could then keep a running total and give us regular updates. This way we will know if the Brits have been stirred into action or apathy rules. We need at least 600 more to become the majority.

[rgandrg]

The Spanish politicians have been lining their pockets with our money for years, most of us are not rich we are pensioners on a limited income. The solution, in Arboleas, is for all the Brits who have not registered to vote to do so, we are the majority in this town and it`s about time we stood up and were counted.

[Roger]

Auken will take years.
We are still getting to grips with all the implications of the Law 7 (LOUA).
The Law is clear, for those who can read complex legal papers, but the devil is in the application.

[maloon]

Did I know, no I didnt! Roger any progress with Auken or are the Brussels wheels grinding to a stop?

[Titch]

As so many people are steaming about suddenly waking up to their dodgy situation, at least make sure you are registered to vote!  Next elections in 18 months or so, let the current crop of wasters know that they need to sort it out quickly, or else.......!!!

The man behind Titch :head

[Titch]

It will take time to get any useful representation in the town halls of the Almanzora valley. A token coucillor simply will not do anything. We need to deal with the present problems. Yes the AUAN is non political, but it is in existence, and acting at the present time for the Almanzora Valley, not just one town or village, and needs to be able to deal with Mayors of different persuasions.  It takes time to get associations up and running and legitimate.  As you can imagine there is much red tape to deal with and there are costs involved. There are rules to be followed, committee members to be elected etc- ever tried getting people to put their fine words into action volunteering for onerous tasks!! United we stand, Divided......... you know the rest!

I'm sure that if groups want to get together and have a member of the AUAN meet them to answer questions it could be arranged. I know this has been done in the past.

Titch

If you care about these problems with urban abuse or have a personal  problem with the situation of illegal houses don't just moan quietly about it, act in a legitimate way.  Don't bury your head in the sand anymore -I don't believe "It'll all come right in the end", without exerting pressure on the Junta.  Don't leave it to others- take responsibility.

[digifidd]

yes fair point ,but if people join the AUAN and folks get elected as well and thay can work together for the common good it can only prove posative.

I agree.  If people get registered to vote AND support the AUAN (or AULAN depending where they live) it will all help.  The more legal irons in the fire the better in order to get the situation noticed and hopefully changed.

And as I said in an earlier post on this thread, if the Junta wont do anything, get onto Mrs Auken again.

The only problem with picking an existing party who says that they will help with the housing issue is that they may not deliver once in power.  Politics being what it is.

[knowall]

The AUAN is a useful pressure group, but it is not a political party.

We are looking for representation in the town hall, by having ex-pats on the council.

[kaths1]

auan website is  www.almanzora-au.org

[Geminis]

Great, how do you contact AUAN?  Do they have a website?

[Titch]

The AUAN is an bone-fide organisation already up and running and already fighting for people's right against urban planning abuses.  Consider joining and making it stronger by even greater numbers.  Those of us caught up in this urban scandel and who now find ourselves with the threat of having to pay out thousands or tens of thousands of euros to get a bit of paper, should stand together and fight.  Moaning to ourselves, moaning to the english speaking newspapers will get us no-where. We must get the message across to the Spanish and those who have the power.  Not forgetting Margaret Aiuken, our champion in Brussels of course.


Titch

[Geminis]

Roger, perhaps after the August break (which you most certainly deserve) a meeting of the Arboleas property owners could be called to see where we can take this and get our voices heard in the right places.  If the other areas like Zurgena etc. did the same the groups could then pool resources to fight for our rights here.  I know it must sound like a gigantic task, but it has to start somewhere!!!!!  I for one would be only too willing to help in some way.

Someone on here said recently about "a single voice in the wilderness....", well let's make it the loudest of voices we can to obtain justice here.

Sorry to rant, but I am sure you would not get away with this in other EU countries..... :tiphat:

[Roger]

John,
I agree. It will happen. There are plenty of Spanish who do not agree with what is happening.

As for corrupt.
Well, if there were some British Councillors, looking over their shoulders, things would be different.

Andie,
Nothing will change unless WE make it.

[Mercurian]

We were talking to a Spanish man from Arboleas today and he said that the whole of Spain is corrupt, has been for donkey's ages and will probably continue to be.  He said that they get someone in who tries to sort things out and when they see how much money can be made from property deals they end up on the side of all the others!  He reckons that it includes everyone, builders, lawyers, etc - they are all in each other's pockets.    808

[digifidd]

"How can any of this be right and how can these people ever be defended?"

because its thair county and the extranjeros have little or no rights plus in most cases the brit money has been & gone (ie spent )  S  :tiphat:

Yes it is their country, but it doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean it is right to defend them as surely this is condoning what they do or have done!  :tiphat:
Unfortunately, UK money is still being spent in Spain through pensions and people buying property (illegal and otherwise) and so it goes on.
Our money may be long gone and spent, but the practice by which it was obtained clearly hasn't disappeared. :'(

[digifidd]

It is ALL of them who have been involved in the process that are at fault: past mayors who turned a blind eye and "felt pressurised" into granting licenses; present mayors who dont do anything positive to change the situation and are more interested in protecting themselves politically; lawyers who blatantly didn't do what they were paid for; developers who without compunction told lie after lie to get buyers' money; notaries who must have seen the dodgy paperwork going through; banks who say all the paper work is good and are prepared to grant mortgages on illegal properties.  They are all complicit in the scams -  however you try to pin the blame on any one of them - it's impossible.  

How could any buyer have known that they were walking into a giant stinking pit of corruption the size of a town (or more)?  As individuals these Spanish people are probably very nice, but when it comes to money and protecting their social position, they seem to be different people altogether. Our developer was lovely and sociable, we spent many days and evenings, offering and receiving help, eating, drinking, laughing with them and their families (at their house, ours and our other neighbours) yet when it came to our property they were happy to sell us an illegal house, bully, extort money for nothing and be completely intransigent over their "right" to extract money from us whenever they felt like it and for any reason they cared to think up.   They had the cheek to call us friends!  Not by my standards of how friends should be treated.  Our lawyer who drew up the papers in favour of the seller was very amiable on a social level yet was complicit in helping us be defrauded.  Is there something schizophrenic in the Spanish psyche or can they switch the personal charm on and off at will?

It is not just a matter of ignorance of Spanish property law that has got us and others into this position - there was no-one in the whole process who stood up for what was right and advised correctly that what we were buying wasn't legal.  Perhaps through fear, perhaps because it was a nice little earner?!

Even now, our Spanish bank manager is saying that people are still buying illegal houses in the area.  Is this because they are speculators or because the dodgy practices (keeping the buyers in ignorance) are continuing?

Yes, we had a lack of Spanish property law knowledge when we bought (please tell me, how many people know the full details of UK property law, let alone Spanish?), it does not get away from the fact that we trusted people who we should have been able to trust when we asked if our house was 100% legal. Call it naivety,  but when you pay for a service, you expect to get served properly!

In addition, there seems little legal redress for those who have been scammed because of some legal loop hole or other, either that or they have to wait years for any kind of court action and even if by some miracle it is found in the victims favour, by then all assets have been conveniently lost, spent or spirited away to another member of the family.  Also the Spanish appear to do the "it's his fault" game where fingers are pointed at someone else and it all goes round in circles and no one ever accepts responsibility for the situation.

How can any of this be right and how can these people ever be defended?

[chelseaphil]

I may well be wrong here. But it appears that all these issues are arising AFTER the previous mayor unfortunately died in the last 12 months.  Before then everyone was singing his praises.

[John n Julie]

Well that says it all,
                           I reckon its about time that true representataion of the expats on the council is now way over due, they are at the moment treating us as quoted earlier (as a get out of jail card for the shyster builders and the dodgy wheeler dealers ) I also think its about time that these issues got sorted out. There must be an honest spanish person out there who is willing to join forces and create another political party able to represent the masses without ripping them off and able to show clarity of their dealings, and not just using the system to line the pockets of them and their families. I smell the stench of a sewage farm in the air some may call it the ayuntamiento.
I will willingly give my assistance to anyone wanting to challenge the hypocrites trying to rip us off again. Indian givers
John  :head :head :head

[Karen4]

Perhaps the more there are, the better. One little lone voice crying in the wilderness might be ignored, but thousands of them are more difficult to ignore!

[knowall]

So, swathes of new housing estates and whole new villages are outside the urban area.

Everyone reckoned Arboleas was safe?

[Roger]

The technical term is Urban Direct.
You might guess that all the British houses are outside.

Arboleas Council is subject to investigation by the National Police, under instructions from a senior judge.
Many British home owners have been visited and questioned.

[Mickey]

Roger

Where does the Arboleas urban centre finish, is there a boundary line?  :tiphat:

[digifidd]

It was passed as a get out of jail free card, because of all the irregualarities in the past.

Get out of jail free card for whom?  Or need I ask....dodgy developers, dodgy town hall officials, etc...? 

As to "It is doubtful if many councillors understood it."  I don't believe that for a minute, I reckon that they are aware of how it would look for their political futures if they actually implemented the existing laws and pursued through the courts their influential businessmen who have helped to cause the mess.  They wouldn't be in power for long and would create a lot of local enemies. 

What a sham and a scam!!

It's a win win for the Spanish involved in the urban process problems - more money, no accountability for past abuses and the unsuspecting Brits/buyers have all the onus (financial and effort) put onto them if they want to get their houses legalised.

It's a disgraceful situation, get onto Auken! (Sorry Steve!) if the Junta wont do anything about this continuing local abuse. 808 :head

[rgandrg]

We think we were conned last Septemeber our legal team contacted us to tell us our Builders were in trouble financially and told us we needed to buy the land before any court orders were taking out against them. Roger how stupid are we?

[Roger]

In April, Arboleas Council approved Ley 7/2002 de Ordenación Urbanistica de Andalucia (LOUA).
This is a very obtuse legal document, which gives a lot of power to the Council in the way it is applied.
It is doubtful is many Councillors understood it.
There was no public consultation. It was passed as a get out of jail free card, because of all the irregualarities in the past.

As a consequence of Articulo 45, ALL land in Arboleas (outside the urban centre) is urbanisable but NOT
urban.

Articulo 51.
In order to make land Urban, land owners must make any provision and carry out all work required by the Council, and land owners must give the Council any land required for public services.

Articulos 54 and 55
In order to make land urban, land owners must donate 10% of the land to the Council, or its value in cash.

Articulo 55
The Council may issue building licences prior to the land being urban (which it did), but property may not be occupied or otherwise used until the land is urban.
Certificates of 1st Occupation cannot be issued until the land is urban.
To make land urban, land owners must make all connections to water, electricity and sewers.