PHASE 2 and how it may affect us in Spain

[Lynden]

All very well but this will seriously hit ex pats in the pocket and with sterling going down the tube and pensions decreasing as well as possibly having to pay for health cover  and for the rest of the paperwork needed future  looks a bit grim from a financial viewpoint.

Understand where you are coming from. Those that have been in Spain a while have seen the exchange rate low. Those who moved over in more recent times and banking on €1.40 to the pound will be hurting if their finances are marginal.

[raysun]

All very well but this will seriously hit ex pats in the pocket and with sterling going down the tube and pensions decreasing as well as possibly having to pay for health cover  and for the rest of the paperwork needed future  looks a bit grim from a financial viewpoint.

[Lynden]

There are no options. Anyone who moved here permanently will have to grin and bear it.
Hopefully it all works out in the end.

I really think it will Raysun. Why wouldn't it. Brits living in Spain for decades; paperwork changes have happened before, may happen again. The reciprocal health deal pre dates the EU, but as many including Roger have pointed out, even the locals supplement with private health care.

[raysun]

There are no options. Anyone who moved here permanently will have to grin and bear it.
Hopefully it all works out in the end.

[Rtis]

This keeping options open issue, what are they ? Does it mean that many posters have a property in the UK ? or going to live with relatives ?

[Lynden]

The first part of Rogers summary is accurate and balanced. The date the EU are saying must be the end of any transition marries with their budget period and therefore makes sense. The UK will likely fall into line with that.
As to the rights and responsibilities of citizens; just speculation based on some information. It is also likely that current EU rules and regulations will apply during that transition. However the UK position will be to prepare and engage outside of the EU during this time and not allow any new EU legislation to apply to UK interests.

The only thing to do is ensure you are currently fully documented, legal and paying your dues.

And keep your UK Options open or re open them.

Always a sensible option for any ex pat.

[Tetley]

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/12/21/gearty-what-does-brexit-mean-for-citizenship-rights/


http://theconversation.com/the-uk-can-no-longer-remove-eu-citizens-for-sleeping-rough-why-this-matters-for-brexit-89463

[Tetley]

The first part of Rogers summary is accurate and balanced. The date the EU are saying must be the end of any transition marries with their budget period and therefore makes sense. The UK will likely fall into line with that.
As to the rights and responsibilities of citizens; just speculation based on some information. It is also likely that current EU rules and regulations will apply during that transition. However the UK position will be to prepare and engage outside of the EU during this time and not allow any new EU legislation to apply to UK interests.

The only thing to do is ensure you are currently fully documented, legal and paying your dues.

And keep your UK Options open or re open them.

[Lynden]

The first part of Rogers summary is accurate and balanced. The date the EU are saying must be the end of any transition marries with their budget period and therefore makes sense. The UK will likely fall into line with that.
As to the rights and responsibilities of citizens; just speculation based on some information. It is also likely that current EU rules and regulations will apply during that transition. However the UK position will be to prepare and engage outside of the EU during this time and not allow any new EU legislation to apply to UK interests.

The only thing to do is ensure you are currently fully documented, legal and paying your dues.

[Tetley]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-ditches-plan-to-enshrine-brexit-date-in-law-2017-12


Government waters down plan to fix Brexit date in law after pressure from Conservative rebels.

Theresa May accepts an amendment which means Article 50 period can be extended if approved by the EU.

EU (Withdrawal) Bill completes its passage through the committee stage after eight days of interrogation.

[Tetley]

PHASE 2

The latest information today ....

A "transition period" after the UK leaves the EU will not continue beyond 31 December 2020, Brussels says.
The UK has said the temporary arrangements should last for about two years after Brexit in March 2019.
Terms of the transition period, which the UK calls an implementation phase, have yet to be negotiated between the two sides.
The EU says the UK will have to continue to follow its rules and cannot adopt an "a la carte" approach.
The cut-off date for the transition phase is contained in the EU's guidelines for the next phase of Brexit negotiations.
The guidelines state that the UK should continue to follow EU trade law and stay in the European customs union and single market during the transition phase. Rulings of the European Court of Justice will continue to apply, the EU says.
The UK has already said it plans to leave the customs union and single market and end the supremacy of EU court rulings as part of Brexit.
But the precise terms of the transition phase are the subject of the next set of negotiations.
________________________________________________________________________

Clearly the next phase of negotiations will be more difficult than the last.

Add to this uncertainty is the professional analysis of the so called agreement signed to go to Phase 2.

The agreement is just a political agreement and has no legal basis.
It is full of ambiguities and contradictions, thus allowing all sides to read into it what they want.

Clearly there are 2 fundamental issues.
One is the Irish border issue, which has not been resolved.
The second is the conditions during the transition period, where the EU and Euro Parliament conditions are totally at odds with the UK Government statements, and May would face a major rebellion if she accepted the EU conditions.

For those of us in Spain, the professional analysis states that the protection for UK citizens in the EU is not clear, and that the UK has shown no interest in negotiating on our behalf.
It looks as if we will just assume the status of 3rd nation citizens subject to the rules of the EU, as interpreted by each EU member state.
The big uncertainty is freedom of movement; ie. Will we be free to more between EU countries post Brexit.

Quote –
"Those who already have a documented form of permanent residence will get the new national status free of charge, subject only to a security and criminality check, and verification of identity and residence.
Implicitly those who are entitled to permanent residence but who do not have a document to prove it as of Brexit Day will not be protected by such guarantees.

UK citizens in the EU27 are in limbo as regards future free movement rights."

Wich may be subject to an" new application procedure" depending on the Spanish government of the day and how its own Spanish UK Resident citizens are "newly registered "within the UK.

As for the rest of the EU  advices on transion.....The UK  will be un effected....because apparently a" no deal is better than a bad deal" and they might  just shut/ re locate a few banks,finance houses,car plants  and go to WTO........ :17:

Anyway hopefully we will get the HARDEST  possible Brexit and just walk in 2018 save all the messing abought,ie just get it done

,unless of course the Tory English Natioanlists roll over again  and we end up in the euro as a full member....or we get Single market & customs union  Starmer/ Corbin.....  IN,  NO 10 lol

2018 BRING IT ON !

[Roger]

PHASE 2

The latest information today ....

A "transition period" after the UK leaves the EU will not continue beyond 31 December 2020, Brussels says.
The UK has said the temporary arrangements should last for about two years after Brexit in March 2019.
Terms of the transition period, which the UK calls an implementation phase, have yet to be negotiated between the two sides.
The EU says the UK will have to continue to follow its rules and cannot adopt an "a la carte" approach.
The cut-off date for the transition phase is contained in the EU's guidelines for the next phase of Brexit negotiations.
The guidelines state that the UK should continue to follow EU trade law and stay in the European customs union and single market during the transition phase. Rulings of the European Court of Justice will continue to apply, the EU says.
The UK has already said it plans to leave the customs union and single market and end the supremacy of EU court rulings as part of Brexit.
But the precise terms of the transition phase are the subject of the next set of negotiations.
________________________________________________________________________

Clearly the next phase of negotiations will be more difficult than the last.

Add to this uncertainty is the professional analysis of the so called agreement signed to go to Phase 2.

The agreement is just a political agreement and has no legal basis.
It is full of ambiguities and contradictions, thus allowing all sides to read into it what they want.

Clearly there are 2 fundamental issues.
One is the Irish border issue, which has not been resolved.
The second is the conditions during the transition period, where the EU and Euro Parliament conditions are totally at odds with the UK Government statements, and May would face a major rebellion if she accepted the EU conditions.

For those of us in Spain, the professional analysis states that the protection for UK citizens in the EU is not clear, and that the UK has shown no interest in negotiating on our behalf.
It looks as if we will just assume the status of 3rd nation citizens subject to the rules of the EU, as interpreted by each EU member state.
The big uncertainty is freedom of movement; ie. Will we be free to more between EU countries post Brexit.

Quote –
"Those who already have a documented form of permanent residence will get the new national status free of charge, subject only to a security and criminality check, and verification of identity and residence.
Implicitly those who are entitled to permanent residence but who do not have a document to prove it as of Brexit Day will not be protected by such guarantees.

UK citizens in the EU27 are in limbo as regards future free movement rights."