Zurgena: Corruption Trial - Judgement issued

[zilnor]

Tets,
Hope your mum lasts as long as mine. She reached the great age of 96 before floating away into the ether. Wishing yr mum many more birthdays. 

Hogs,
Agree with you on putting your fate in the hands of "twelve good men  and true under  the British Judicial system" rather than Spanish justice ! 

[Tetley]

Good Lad, Phek the Politiks and fixing Bikes is much more rewarding !

Hohgsy  :great:

off topic

bit like i said to Mar last week Hogs,85 she was last Friday,well done Mam ye out lived em all....Churchill,Bowie,LizTaylor,it just dont get no better   

[Tetley]

Morning Hogs,looks like yev had 3 shredies this morning 


carnt stop im doing mi Road Rocket side panels  lol

[Tetley]

of course buyers could also antisipate this ie old age and buy were there are shops & medical,nr me we have houses for sale 150/200e k ,well built 500m walk to the med centre and new shops when we get them.

the main reason i bought IN  a village was so my kid could walk to/from school as opposed to living in the rural  outback.

[zilnor]

The potential problem of buying a house in a very rural area of Spain where a car is an absolute necessity , is what happens when you can no longer drive due to ill health and increasing age, and there is no public transport ? If you wish to stay in Spain then presumably you can sell and buy a property close to shops, banks etc but then you lose the tranquility and calm of rural life. The value of your home might then be of importance , depending where you purchase .

[Tetley]

People are getting tied up with the cultual difference.
In Spain people buy a house and keep it, to hand on to the familly.
The re sale value is of no interest because the Spanish are not going to pay any more tax than they have to.

I bought my house in Arboleas for around 50k in 1998 on 1 300 m2 plot. It was for the rest of my life so what it is worth now is of no interest.
I watched the prices rocket. A neighbouring estate, on 600 m2 was selling in 5 minutes for 230k just 4 years later.
Now they are worth 150k, which is the correct value, although now rising.

The problem is that people came to a rural backwater where the only property demand was from the UK.
It is a fact that this demand is on a 12 to 15 year cycle.
therefore buy at the top of the demand and sell at the bottom and you lose money.
Of course if, like most people here, you bought a home not a house then none of this matters.

It is true that many people who I have helped have discovered that the builder and lawyer did not register the property correctly and people have had to pay around 2k to get the paperwork in order.
Hopefully this is now sorted in Arboleas.
And for the 291 former rustic houses we will keep a carefull check that everything is done correctly.

On the money again Rog,i bought our 2000 similar deal to you but a lot more land,was prime building land and in 2005 i could have sold it for around 325k,however im not bothered,my kid will get the house,im not intrested in the value as ,as a family we bought into the culter and rural life,far away from my 65 hour a week over stressed with all the goodies i had in my mid to late 30,s.

if people want to buy and are confident in the EU  outcome,Arboleas is the place to buy .


as for the UK  as a property investment.....changing times.

[Roger]

People are getting tied up with the cultual difference.
In Spain people buy a house and keep it, to hand on to the familly.
The re sale value is of no interest because the Spanish are not going to pay any more tax than they have to.

I bought my house in Arboleas for around 50k in 1998 on 1 300 m2 plot. It was for the rest of my life so what it is worth now is of no interest.
I watched the prices rocket. A neighbouring estate, on 600 m2 was selling in 5 minutes for 230k just 4 years later.
Now they are worth 150k, which is the correct value, although now rising.

The problem is that people came to a rural backwater where the only property demand was from the UK.
It is a fact that this demand is on a 12 to 15 year cycle.
therefore buy at the top of the demand and sell at the bottom and you lose money.
Of course if, like most people here, you bought a home not a house then none of this matters.

It is true that many people who I have helped have discovered that the builder and lawyer did not register the property correctly and people have had to pay around 2k to get the paperwork in order.
Hopefully this is now sorted in Arboleas.
And for the 291 former rustic houses we will keep a carefull check that everything is done correctly.

[zilnor]

JohnJones.
Spot on.  :clap:

[JohnJones]

So long as you use. Good Agent, are strict about references, proving income and insist tenants use a guarantor so a third party, usually a family member of there's, is liable for unpaid rent and damage, exposure is low. 3 bed places in the south east should generate around £2000 a month, more than enough to cover your rent here, the agent and insurances, Gas safety Certs et al, all of which can be set off against tax liabilities. Should be enough over for a coffee and a tapas each month.
Meanwhile your capital asset in the UK grows outstripping all Europe.
And no exposure to the extremely high risk of purchasing in Spain, no silly monies on Taxes and conveyencing. If you grt I'll and have to return, or just want to, it doesn't work out for all, you haven't burned financial bridges and just step back onto the UK housing Market, many of who here are now excluded due to selling up in the UK.

Just my opinion by the way.

[zilnor]

You are of course right that a minority of tenants abuse their lease, sublet etc etc. But if proper references are taken up, including employers , bank, etc etc. that should cut out the majority of troublesome tenants. Even if they damage carpets, furniture, ( if let furnished) throw tomato ketchup over the walls,  etc. the property itself is still there . No doubt someone will tell me that tenants knocked the house down or something similar , but if you do it properly you have sufficient insurance to cover problems with tenants.
I only let to fully employed people with good references from both their employer and their bank . Nothing is foolproof but in my experience, I have had few problems.

[Tetley]

It aint Easy Ang 

[Angleseyite]

Byrney
The excess left over from the UK rent will pay the taxes. More or less. But if you keep a property in the UK it  will be at least worth what you paid for it. Still a good investment !

Of course, as you say plenty of people stay on the black economy..............

That's providing you have good tenants, bad tenants cost, even with so called agents managing on your behalf!!!!

owner manage Ang,its the oni way....... a person iknow let there house through a reputable RICS type agent in the UK.....compleet un happynes....now its FULL of workers living in it... including 3 in the garage and no rent for 2 months and the other thing.... home owner garentor on the lease otherwise.... NO Let !

rember landlords are 21st social housing services.....for  evrybody to have a pop at !ie banks,local government,utility co,s tennents.

Yes all well and good, but if the owner is 1,000's of miles away for months on end!!!. I know where tenants costing landlords £1,000's in repairs etc.

[Tetley]

Byrney
The excess left over from the UK rent will pay the taxes. More or less. But if you keep a property in the UK it  will be at least worth what you paid for it. Still a good investment !

Of course, as you say plenty of people stay on the black economy..............

That's providing you have good tenants, bad tenants cost, even with so called agents managing on your behalf!!!!

owner manage Ang,its the oni way....... a person iknow let there house through a reputable RICS type agent in the UK.....compleet un happynes....now its FULL of workers living in it... including 3 in the garage and no rent for 2 months and the other thing.... home owner garentor on the lease otherwise.... NO Let !

rember landlords are 21st social housing services.....for  evrybody to have a pop at !ie banks,local government,utility co,s tennents.

[Angleseyite]

Byrney
The excess left over from the UK rent will pay the taxes. More or less. But if you keep a property in the UK it  will be at least worth what you paid for it. Still a good investment !

Of course, as you say plenty of people stay on the black economy..............

That's providing you have good tenants, bad tenants cost, even with so called agents managing on your behalf!!!!

[zilnor]

Byrney
The excess left over from the UK rent will pay the taxes. More or less. But if you keep a property in the UK it  will be at least worth what you paid for it. Still a good investment !

Of course, as you say plenty of people stay on the black economy..............

[byrney]

"Rent your property out in the UK, and this will more than cover the cost of renting in Arboleas/Albox area. That way, you still have a house as security for future years.".

Are you sure that is correct Liz?  Surely there are taxes on that income to be paid which may ultimately not make it a viable option?  Unless, of course, you don't declare the income and enter the black economy.........

[zilnor]

Agree with challenger.
Cost us around 10K in total fees, which included extra bits of paper for the garage and pool which were not included on the original deeds.

Rent your property out in the UK, and this will more than cover the cost of renting in Arboleas/Albox area. That way, you still have a house as security for future years. IMO.

[345 Challenger]

To be precise it was 13k or there abouts, and Amanda did the conveyancing at half the price a solicitor would charge, I checked, the selling agents cost us just under 6k alone.with 4 viewings in 4 years, I'm just glad it's out of my hair. Renting is a dream and highly recommend

[Tetley]

That's what it cost me, admittedly I could try to reclaim some of the tax, but have been advised it's not even worth the agro

seems a lot of coin to sell a house my friend sold a villa at approx 160k, i think they payed abought 3k all done 18 months ago.

[345 Challenger]

That's what it cost me, admittedly I could try to reclaim some of the tax, but have been advised it's not even worth the agro

[Tetley]

why would it cost 15k to sell a house ?

yer can flog it yerself,get a contact nocked up by a lawyer/legal sec,pay yer fees plus yer plus valour tax if yev turned a coin.


its a bit like Jabba,s post,anybody buying 2000,5,6,7 will be out of bed on the money because of the market throth,anybody bought with the right papers pre 2003 has had years off good wether and cheap living and may still turn a coin if they sell.



lets be honest if yer buy a new motor home or merc,yer going to take a hit on the coin within 6 months if yev bought new

[345 Challenger]

The way is see it is, if you take the average cost of a property in the Almanzora Valley being €150k, the purchase costs alone are €15k all in, the selling g costs are €15k, if your unlucky enough to now have to pay for the privilege if having your property regularised that could be anything up to €20k, what would be the point of owning your own property, in theory it's already cost you €50k not even taking any downturn into a count in property prices. €50k gives you lots of years of free rent, and you still have your €150k to do as you please if you don't purchase in the first place.

[jabba the cat]

Bryney.

I think you read it wrong i said i could have paid rent here for 15 years and still saved money rather than buying as i did an illegal villa then making it legal with thousands more on top of the buying price minus all the worry and anxiety thats goes with it.
Paying 15 years rental the total is less than what I lost on the sale of villa.

I wont pay tax on rental here payed to landlord he does who as you say sometimes they forget that small subject receiving rent here or in the UK is unearned income.

So renting here would have been cheaper for me over the years rather than buying as i did in 2005 although its a bit different ballgame now though innovation 14 on the move.

PS.should have kept a property in the Uk and rented it out and payed taxes on the income but hindsight well we know what that is. :03:

[byrney]

Sorry Jabba, but you forgot to mention the small subject of paying taxes on the amount of rental income - a bit like those "forgetting" to declare the income from properties they own in the UK and not declaring the rental income here in Spain (or probably even in the UK).

Chickens will come home to roost one day, and those caught will no doubt then cry fowl......

[jabba the cat]

Why do some people keep going on about renting and not buying to save losing money? Think about it - a rental charge of 500 euros per month equates to 6000 euros per year. Rent for ten years and you have lost 60000 euros! Now that Inovation 14 has been passed it is safe and more economical to buy property in Arboleas. And no, I do not have any plans to sell my property in Arboleas!


Now that Inovation 14 has been passed it is safe and more economical to buy property in Arboleas.

Well i could have rented for 15 years and still walked away in profit with what i lost buying a illegal villa then costing me thousands to get in  legal under innovation 13 and you know who gained the person that bought the property and good luck to them.
So everyone whos buying now at great prices there are hundreds who have gone nursing wounds that cost them tens of thousands through no fault of theirs as they say hindsight is such a wonderful thing enjoy your stay as we have but always beware of the goalposts being moved here in Spain.   :c023:

[Keithg]

Why do some people keep going on about renting and not buying to save losing money? Think about it - a rental charge of 500 euros per month equates to 6000 euros per year. Rent for ten years and you have lost 60000 euros! Now that Inovation 14 has been passed it is safe and more economical to buy property in Arboleas. And no, I do not have any plans to sell my property in Arboleas!

[tandas]

Buy in Arboleas now the only fully legal village in the area and soon to have properties on the market.

[zilnor]

Buy if you want to . You pays your money and you takes your chance ! The advantage buyers have now in Spain is that property prices have come down. And are good value.
As for me , my money is invested in English property , and as it is an investment  I want the best return for my hard earned cash. It is part of my pension, and it gives me a far greater return than I would  get in Spain or other parts of Europe.

[casablanca]

People have said to me " You bought a house in southern Spain. I am considering it. What do you think ? "
I say " no, no, no, and no , no, no ". Rent in Spain but don't buy. IMO and with my personal experience of losing money on a property purchase, I would not advise anyone to buy a house in Spain. Why should people who have worked hard to retire to a life in a warmer climate be ripped off by a corrupt system of greedy bar stewards who don't give a s--t about people like the Priors ?

Think it was buyers between 2005 and 2008 that got their fingers burnt, purchasers before and after aint done to bad and it's pretty much VFM nowadays, so why not buy if you wish?? But can only speak from my experience of Arboleas area.

[tintin]

It all comes down to supply and demand, if the demand was not there the properties would not have got built and as a lot of people bought for investment thinking of past performance both in Spain and the UK it drove prices up, for those that can remember we had a recession in the UK and a lot of property prices collapsed as they did in Spain, but the difference being UK prices recovered and Spanish prices did not. I bought my present house in 2007 after my first house doubled in price, but have lost on PAPER about €60,000 on this one, but gained on my UK one. You only lose when you want to sell so if you treat it as your home what's the problem, greed fueled the boom and some innocents suffered
Mike

[Tetley]

but apart from this....the market became over driven,by the over drive in the UK Housing market...... how can a new los caracos villa be 24 k in 1998/9 then be 220 to 250k 6 years later.

when i was looking early on in 2000 a brand new oller villa with pool on a large plot was coming out at just over 50k english money,some villas in Arboleas were been marketed at over 300k plus in 2005 befor the re adjustment

the market now is around the 150k mark,the same size home in Denia would be around 350 k,so peoples investment at 150k euros should be fairly safe,assuming the UK does not have a meltdown with the EU and loads of restrictions are put in place.

[zilnor]

I consider myself fortunate because my house was legal, so no problems selling it other than having to drop the price considerably. And why was that, why did the property market collapse in Spain ? Oh yes, due to the building of many thousands of illegal properties which were sold to ex-pats who bought in good faith, used lawyers etc etc.
Add to this the demolition of houses such as the Priors , it all went down hill from there.
I remember listening to a local Spanish councillor from Mojacar, on the local English radio station just after the Prior's house was demolished. He said " What have they done ? They have killed the goose that laid the golden eggs" .
Excellent summing up of the situation.

[Tetley]

For anybody thinking of investing    http://www.almanzora-au.org/buyersguide.php

[jabba the cat]

It was a bloody house hundreds  of them built on Rustic land and then sold to the unsuspecting people who then used as you say the right people,but they were crooks nothing more nothing less and as i have said every man and his dog were in on the biggest con ever to happen here in the valley.
Well now the S**t has hit the fan and of course all the crooks or (as you say the right people) have now got their act together, i.e builders,solicitors.notaries estate agents  so now you have a far better chance of buying a legal property and less chance of being sucked out of your life savings.

You learn by your experiences investments can go up or down yes i heard that a thousand times off the investment guys in the UK who would sell you anything just to make a buck and dont care how they do it, bit like here in Spain years ago.  :c023:

[Tetley]

MY personal experience is totally different,
I have a 3 bedroom house in Spain , purchased for approximately half the price of a studio flat  in the UK.
It is not a financial investment, It is currently a holiday home and will eventually be our main residence.
So my advice would be the same as any large financial transaction, make sure you have the right people working for you, it's your responsibility.

and the other thing,investments can go down as well as up,so folks should not spend any money they dont want to take a  hit on,with anything,ie cars,houses,boats...