Free Music

[musicdonna]

... he probably won´t need an allen key, either!!

[ramblarider]

Some good news breaking today on this topic, anyway:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/02/pirate-bay-founder-arrested-cambodia

I suspect he'll find a Cambodian prison slightly less comfortable than a Swedish one.

[guest4538]

Ramblarider,

Thank you for a lively debate, but I think it best if I now withdraw to avoid it degenerating.

I only joined in because of Graeme's attempt to persuade the moderators to pull the topic on the grounds of a false premise. However Graeme was correct in saying 'ping has obviously never produced anything of intellectual merit'.

And now, despite the earlier discussions, Sheilsoft still uses the same incorrect phrase of 'illegal downloads': immoral or unethical perhaps, but definitely not illegal in Spain.

But let me finish by saying that I sympathise with your attempts at making a fair living. And, if I am tempted to download any material in future, I will first check to ensure that I am only downloading from those producers who are "filthy rich".

[ramblarider]

While I sympathise with your arguments, it might be difficult to prove that either of you would suffer a loss! You are assuming that if someone is stopped from downloading a piece of music, that they would instead buy a copy: that doesn't necessarily follow!

It does not necessarily follow that if I steal your car I might not just dump it somewhere, either, when I've finished with it.

[sheilsoft]

I agree with most of the comments above regarding illegal downloading and sharing of music and other media.

Spotify is probably the best solution. It is completely legal (owned by Sony, Universal, EMI, Facebook etc) and most of the major record labels have signed up to it. You don't download the music, but have access to thousands of artists, albums and tracks to play streamed through your computer or device. You can create playlists (handy for parties) and share amongst friends. You can also purchase tracks. Used via a free account, it is IMHO an excellent resource.

[guest4538]

I say, of course it applies to music.  It's taking the intellectual property of another person and permanently depriving them of any money they would have made through the purchase of that property. To the mind of any thinking person, that equates to theft.

When you steal someone else's intellectual property, you "permanently deprive" that person of their income. Simple. It is identical to shop lifting.

While I sympathise with your arguments, it might be difficult to prove that either of you would suffer a loss! You are assuming that if someone is stopped from downloading a piece of music, that they would instead buy a copy: that doesn't necessarily follow!

[ramblarider]

When you steal someone else's intellectual property, you "permanently deprive" that person of their income. Simple. It is identical to shop lifting.

To put this in context, I have been writing textbooks for 30+ years. I now rely on the royalties from those to live.

Similarly, artists who create music, or films rely on that too. They are not all "filthy rich" and they cannot afford to have their life's work stolen out from under them. The vast majority of authors, actors and musicians spend years perfecting their craft. They rarely enjoy high incomes by commercial standards, and don't usually have pensions or "benefit packages". They are much on their own, and often highly dependent upon back catalogue sales and royalties. In addition, new artists now find it very hard to make a decent living because of this rampant theft. I know some who have had to give up as a result. One consequnce of that is less original material to steal in the first place. Everyone loses (except the people coining it running illegal file-sharing networks). Orange jump suits, shackles and a few hundred years in a US jail are hopefully waiting at some point.

[guest4538]

In general, there are widely accepted guidelines for "fair use". Making backup copies, or such-like. However, if you think you can just take someone else's work that they have worked hard to create, and own the rights to, and simply give to all and sundry then I suppose you would have no problem with me taking a liking to your car, and doing the same?

Theft pure and simple, and if you don't like that description - too bad.

Ramblarider,

It's not a matter of what I like or dislike. The fact remains that it is not defined as theft in Spain. Furthermore "theft" is defined in many jurisdictions as the act of taking another person's property with the intention of permanently depriving them of that property: I don't think that applies to copying music, but it would apply if you took my car!

You suggest that there are widely accepted guidelines. Would you let your mother borrow your backup copy overnight, or would that be a breach of your personal code or guidelines?

Personally, I have no great interest in music. It is just organised noise. But sometimes I get excited. I really enjoyed Gareth Malone's Military Wives singing 'Wherever You Are'. I downloaded it from 'You Tube' and watched it over and over again. I then bought the CD to support the cause. Had I not downloaded it first, I would not have become such a supporter and I probably would not have bought the CD. So am I guilty of theft according to your guidelines?

[ramblarider]

Trust me on this. If I caught anyone distributing any of MY intellectual property, being "libelled" would be the least of their worries.

You write it, perform or create it, you can do what you want with it. If you didn't it belongs to someone else, and unless you have their permission to distribute it you are crossing the line. It is morally wrong. Ethically wrong, and criminal.

In general, there are widely accepted guidelines for "fair use". Making backup copies, or such-like. However, if you think you can just take someone else's work that they have worked hard to create, and own the rights to, and simply give to all and sundry then I suppose you would have no problem with me taking a liking to your car, and doing the same?

Theft pure and simple, and if you don't like that description - too bad.

[guest4538]

They are essentially criminal enterprises, stealing from people who create content and turning things they do not own and have no rights to into personal gain. Theft pure and simple. If you had recorded music, written books, or made movies only to see your work ripped off like this you would feel differently about it.

This is one example where (while normally strongly opposed to it) I would like to see the US seek extradition proceedings against those involved. 399 years in a federal 'supermax' might make them think twice.

Ramblarider,

These are strong views and I respect your personal views, but there is still nothing in Spanish law to suggest that copying music for personal use is theft! We are in Spain, and not the USA nor the UK where different laws apply. And there are other Countries similar to Spain (extract from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement#Peer-to-peer_issues):

"Countries where sharing files without profit is legal
Downloading copied music is legal in some countries in the context of the copyright, such as Canada, The Netherlands, Spain, and Panama, provided that the songs are not sold. In Canada it is legal to download any copyrighted file as long as it is for non-commercial use, but it is illegal to distribute the copyrighted files (e.g. by uploading them to a P2P network).

Russian law
Downloading music and films for home use is legal due to exception provided by section 1273 of Russian Federation Civil Code. A special 1% compensatory levy intended for copyright holders is collected from the price of certain goods (like computers or clean CD-RW disks). The compensation mechanism is unclear, though, and left entirely in the hands of the collecting agency established at the same time, with Nikita Mikhalkov, a prominent film director and political figure, at its helm."

So do take care. To accuse anyone, who copies music in Spain for personal use, of intellectual property theft, might be deemed libellous!

[ramblarider]

The following is an extract from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_Spain . It would appear that "P2P" is not defined as intellectual property theft in Spain.

Some consumer's associations and specialized lawyers contend that the current legislation allows file sharing (as with p2p networks) as this is not for profit and is for private use [6][7]. Additionally, the Penal Code explicitly requires the intention of commercial profit in order to commit a crime against the Intellectual Property [8].

That is not quite correct.

Although private copying is permitted, MAKING AVAILABLE copyright material publicly ('collectively') is unlawful under international agreements and under Spanish law. Further, the "not for profit" argument falls flat on its face when you realise that these sites are run for profit, taking money from advertisements, for example. Some are pulling in over 100,000 euros a month. There is an ongoing case where a court ruled that posting links to P2P sites was not unlawful but that case did not address the actual hosting of content or properly address the funding of these sites.

They are essentially criminal enterprises, stealing from people who create content and turning things they do not own and have no rights to into personal gain. Theft pure and simple. If you had recorded music, written books, or made movies only to see your work ripped off like this you would feel differently about it.

This is one example where (while normally strongly opposed to it) I would like to see the US seek extradition proceedings against those involved. 399 years in a federal 'supermax' might make them think twice.

[guest4538]

The following is an extract from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_Spain . It would appear that "P2P" is not defined as intellectual property theft in Spain.

Copyright Law of Spain

Right to the private copying and home playing:

"The law explicitly allows to make private copies of copyrighted work without the author's consent for published works if the copy is not for commercial use. To compensate authors, the law establishes a compensatory tax associated with certain recording media (CDs, DVDs, cassettes), managed through societies of authors and editors (as SGAE and CEDRO). Such private copies of a protected work must be made for the private use (not collective, nor lucrative) of the copier (2�º of art. 31): the author is compensated by a tax on the means of reproduction (e.g. photocopiers, blank cassettes) determined at article 25. However, computer programs can not be copied except for a backup copy (art. 99.2): they can be modified for the sole use of the person performing the modification (art. 99.4). Any work can be played in a "strictly home" environment (art. 20.1) without the author's consent. The moral rights of the author can only be exercised in the respect of the rights of owners of copies of the work or of rights to its exploitation, as detailed in article 14."
Some consumer's associations and specialized lawyers contend that the current legislation allows file sharing (as with p2p networks) as this is not for profit and is for private use [6][7]. Additionally, the Penal Code explicitly requires the intention of commercial profit in order to commit a crime against the Intellectual Property [8].

[cougar]

The Pirate Bay
If your IP blocks it use this https://tpb.pirateparty.org.uk/

[musicdonna]

Spotify is superb and has a choice of tarrifs, including a free one which c0mes with adverts.  You can't download and keep- I think- only stream, but it's worth a look.

Donna

[alanjune]

ISOHUNT

[fender14]

Graeme - quite agree.
Downloading free music is theft, pure and simple.

free = theft?? some birthdays you must have.

On topic, music sharing is not piracy, if a friend lends you a film or cd, do you consider that piracy? Music sharing online promotes bands and is a big part of their marketing, and there are many bands that support and promote. Just a few off the top of my head are Metallica, Radiohead, Linkin Park, System of a Down, Nine Inch Nails, etc..

As far as viruses, trojans, rootkits or any malware you want to talk about, I will agree that they are available on torrent sites, they are also available on normal sites without downloads, through popups, activex scripts, java, etc..  Its up to you to know what your doing and downloading, and in this day and age people need to be able to recognize security threats on their computer. Torrent files that claim to be a full album, yet the file size is less than a megabyte, which is impossible, dvds also should have a minimum file size of 600 mb.

Apart from that, most torrent sites have a comment system, where people will warn you about threats. Also need to say that if your downloading programs that need to be cracked, are also identified as threats by antiviruses, although this is a false positive, it is because of the packing named "HEUR" which poses no threat.

If you want to be sure, dont be the first person to download. Leave it to other more experienced people who know what they´re doing to revise the uploaded files and comment.

And as for Graeme, this thread was started by someone looking for help and advice, not looking to be lied to and told that torrent programs are viruses, etc ( wikipedia will give you a full readup of best torrent programs with each ones pros and cons), I'm sure you were told at least once in life that sharing is a good thing, even if it didn't sink in. By the way, there will always be musicians who play and make music just for the love of music, you think JR Tolkien wrote lord of the rings to make money? or Cervantes wrote to make money? No. Poetry, music, etc., have only recently become ways of making loads of money, and yet somehow they still existed.

[alhambra]

Try kickasstorrents, good for all types of downloads, music, video, books, games,computer programmes, and loads more, and easy to use

[alfie]

Graeme - quite agree.
Downloading free music is theft, pure and simple.

[Chris485]

Thank you for all your replies. After much research I have gone for, not free, but very cheap, site that works well called mp3million.

[ramblarider]

Well... next time I need the house painting I'll get in touch.

Nice to have someone who thinks everyone should work for nothing.

[mickychesnuts]

Anyone recommend a free music download site that´s easy to use

No such thing anymore.. you more than likely will end up with a virus on ur pc..

Try gomusicnow.com   its not free but it is very very cheap, hassle free and simple to use..

[Lorraine]

Google You Tube download - there are a number of little programs that let you download stuff as an MP3 or 4 directly from You Tube.

[hank]

Chris, try Jango.
It's a free Internet radio and music search engine....so you can choose the artists played to suit your taste.
Not tried downloading/saving but it can share with social networks such as Facebook, Twitter, YouTube etc and you may be able to save after sharing.
Best of luck.
Hank.

[Chris485]

Tried all that, after about the seventh programme I was asked to download I gave up. Now my IE is buggered up just like when I installed expat shield! I think I have uninstalled everything, but now I have the problem of maintaining my type size on ie. Every time I close and open it it goes back to 100 per cent I want it to stay at 150 per cent

The other problem is that it insisted I download a New Codec pack, whatever that is. My anti virus would not let me do it!

There must be an easier way, something like itunes, but free

[Optomist]

The quickest way is to use a BIT TORRENT down loader like UTorrent and get torrets from somewhere like Piratebay , most are very quick to download .

[Chris485]

Anyone recommend a free music download site that´s easy to use