English plumber

[ajc]

That's not true , a lot of idiots end up in the forces and come out with lots of common sense and practical skills , or at least that was the case for a lot of my freinds years ago

[PAX]

You can educate an idiot but you can't teach them common sense...or practical skills..enough said

[expatpat]

I've been reading this thread with interest, just like many others I've tried to find tradesmen who will first turn up to quote, then turn up on the agreed day to do the work for a sensible price that will give them a decent profit without bankrupting me.

Over the past year I've unfortunately found more cowboys than MGM had when they made all those  B-movies in the 50s.

But and this is my reason for replying in my experience its not just the Brits. 

Yesterday I ask a local Spanish company who was mentioned in this thread for a quote to re-plumb a very small bathroom. Its no more than 4 hours work. Perhaps I should qualify that statement by saying in a past business life I owned a plumbing company so my estimate of time is pretty accurate.   Quote was 540 Euros plus parts.  Result I dusted off my tool box this morning. My point is its not just the Brits 

[ajc]

Byrney , all the boxes ticked in that post .
So back to school plumbers it is then .

[byrney]

ajc - I fully support what you have said.  I did not work in the building industry.  But, I do know from the "services" industry, that a piece of paper is worth nothing.  It's whether you can do the job.  I have had many "Graduates" work for me who were pathetic, whilst someone leaving Secondary Modern without any qualifications have been brilliant at doing the job.

But, rather than getting side-tracked about the goods and bads of qualifications, and going back to the original post, it's all about whether a person can do the job.

Which is where this Forum starts to excel itself - a Forum where we can all tell it as it is - subject to the Moderators' constraints.  And, as Phil has said previously, the PM system is open to us all with which we can safely warn people of certain rogue traders and point us in the right direction of decent traders (with or without paper qualifications).

[Tetley]

im not getting involved in the plumber debate so off topic

but all us indentured craftsmen have city in guilds i have 5 plus my apprentiship indentures why not just ask to see copys if its a big money job ie building extensions,electrical,plumbing ect.

even if a" ryan air craftsman" is paying there registrations and taxes,its not going to help you mutch 2 years down the line when the walls cracked because the steel work was crap or the new floors got to come up because of some crap rush job push fit joint that should have been soldered....

I do not agree with that comment on push fit hep2o has been used in the UK for many years and fully tested it is available here solder joints have been known to breakdown just as much as a push fit joint incorrectly fitted

i fink any joints oni as good as the fitter,but i solder mine and i certainly wouldent have any push fit flexi stuff on my plot apart from an above ground hose pipe or tree irigation system ,i like it all propper old school spring bent-copper fitted and soldered,but i am a bit old school lol  

) i dont like modern tecno cars either with all this plug in shxte  hence we have an 18 year old ford  )

[pannica]

im not getting involved in the plumber debate so off topic

but all us indentured craftsmen have city in guilds i have 5 plus my apprentiship indentures why not just ask to see copys if its a big money job ie building extensions,electrical,plumbing ect.

even if a" ryan air craftsman" is paying there registrations and taxes,its not going to help you mutch 2 years down the line when the walls cracked because the steel work was crap or the new floors got to come up because of some crap rush job push fit joint that should have been soldered....

I do not agree with that comment on push fit hep2o has been used in the UK for many years and fully tested it is available here solder joints have been known to breakdown just as much as a push fit joint incorrectly fitted

[ajc]

I will add , i never intended to upset anyone , i was just saying it as i have experienced it, but just for the record , Some people just need a chance dont think they are no good just because a bit of paper doesnt say it , maybe Gareth Bale hasnt got a bit of paper ? but hes pretty good !

[ajc]

OK lets look at this in more depth,
My company employed a minimum of 1 apprentice a year that went through the CITB 3 year course every year for 18 years , of those apprentices most of them are as good as the lads i took on from local shelters i was involved in ,some of them couldnt even read properly but they new how to use their hands and most of them went on to acheive good life styles , alot of the apprentices went on to other things realising they wernt really practical minded or just coulnt get up in the morning , not all of them but alot of them , when you say i employ untrained labour you have got that so wrong , i employed very good labour with or without a bit of paper to say this or that on it ,would you say that chap in his shed that tinkers with his old motor car and wins competitions with it shouldnt because Its only his hobbie and he not trained to do so ?

[Crancrank]

AJC good post, I agree 100% with your comments, and with those of Felipe.

[JessicaH]

 Felipe I  have read and re- read ALL my posts, and I mean ALL..on every thread I have posted and cannot see where I have ever made abusive or insulting remarks even though I have been on the receiving end of some vicious comments but just countered them.
Yet I am to be reprimanded.
So, please tell for what ?
Thx

[felipe]

It is usually the same people that are reprimanded. Just 're read the posts.

[bagwash]

Felipe, have to agree with Jessica H, exactly what did she say that you deemed Rude - I do feel that at times you are a bit overzealous with your reprimands.

[JessicaH]

Pray explain Felipe....what have I written that is SO rude... because unless you tell me I won't be able to change my ways.
Thx in advance

[felipe]

Why do You have to get so rude when posting? There is no need for it.

[JessicaH]

Quote ajc " the best Brickies I know started on the hod ,best chippies started as hammer hands" ...unquote

When I read this out to my husband his language was unprintable....
But thanks for the laughter  that followed.

[JessicaH]

John Fell Building Co, Surrey, where my husband was indentured and served his apprenticeship with bricklayers, electricians and the other trades, WAS....and for many years.
Most of his immediate friends, because of their apprenticeships and their subsequent City and Guilds  achievements went onto bigger and greater things.
But you, ajc, with your large construction company using unqualified folk appeared to have surpassed everyone .
Wondering what name your company trades under and where it might be.

[ajc]

And I forgot to mention I am a qualified carpenter and joiner and went on to become a qualified structural engineer and have a larhe construction company so I must be insulting myself as well.

[ajc]

JessicaH
You havnt been in the building industry then , best guys are the ones that are practical minded and can get up in the morning , the best Brickies I know started on the hod ,best chippies started as hammer hands , roof tilers none are qualified as there never was an apprentiship for that , plasterers started as labourers , and I have employed many chaps over the years and college is a waste of time, that is one of the reasons small companies don't have apprentices. Lots of people will disagree with this post but through experience that's the way it is

[Angleseyite]

I have said many times on the forum, use font arboleas or font almanzora.
Locally qualified tax registered , far cheaper and very professional compared with the local John Waynes !!!!
Job done.

Font Arboleas for me everytime, not used Font Almanzora, so can't comment myself, but friends have used them and are happy with them.

[JessicaH]

Really ajc !!

If not I bet ALL those employed within a registered building company...who at least from early 50's...
( be they bricklayers, painters, plumbers or electricians ) and whose apprenticeship
lasted 5 +years including college.....because a genuine builder should know every aspect of the trade....are pleased to know they wasted their time.
Your post, is to say the least, insulting to all indentured journeyman builders...regardless of their trade.

[ajc]

Most of the best guys in the building industry i know havnt got any paperwork they just learnt on the job and that is the only place you do learn , elecs and plumbs bit different they need the paperwork

[byrney]

"why not just ask to see copys if its a big money job ie building extensions,electrical,plumbing ect." - because Tets, unfortunately, most of us don't and take people on face value.  Big mistake I know.

[Tetley]

im not getting involved in the plumber debate so off topic

but all us indentured craftsmen have city in guilds i have 5 plus my apprentiship indentures why not just ask to see copys if its a big money job ie building extensions,electrical,plumbing ect.

even if a" ryan air craftsman" is paying there registrations and taxes,its not going to help you mutch 2 years down the line when the walls cracked because the steel work was crap or the new floors got to come up because of some crap rush job push fit joint that should have been soldered....

[Dave and Sue]

Rtis
Never a truer thing said!!

When we had to use agency sparks in the UK I never asked them what experience
they had just took a look in their toolbox
Quite a few never even got to stop long enough for a brew!!
As the old saying goes ",a picture paints a thousand words"

You have made my day I thought it was only me lol

Regards Dave

[Rtis]

When employing a uk tradesman ask to look in his tool box if it only has Spanish branded tools the person is a chancer, any uk tradesman would have quite a few tools from over the years .

[felipe]

I now know who it is and he DOES NOT advertise on this forum. The ones that do have an excellent reputation and plenty of recommendations. Both are fully registered and pay their taxes.

[raysun]

I have said many times on the forum, use font arboleas or font almanzora.
Locally qualified tax registered , far cheaper and very professional compared with the local John Waynes !!!!
Job done.

[JessicaH]

I do not know who he is or if he advertises on the forum. So I think it very wrong to even indicate that he is as there are only a couple of plumbers advertising. If the OP wants to PM I will look into it if they are advertising.

And what Felipe is SO wrong with writing  "IF....." by doing so I am certainly not indicating anything..merely making a suggestion because as OP didn't name the person assumed there was a liable element involved !

[felipe]

I do not know who he is or if he advertises on the forum. So I think it very wrong to even indicate that he is as there are only a couple of plumbers advertising. If the OP wants to PM I will look into it if they are advertising.

[JessicaH]

Then this guy certainly ISN'T a plumber but a BODGER and if he advertisers on this forum should be removed then he can and should be named and shamed.
The gain in respect for Felipe will out-way any lose of revenue.

[gingernut]

Apparently he is only interested in high profit jobs, which don't need a great deal of organisation.

Yet he has a stand at the Lamps Market.

[evansnews]

Sent you a pm

[Moyra]

Hi, just thought I'd let you all know, (by the way this is the same person that has other neg. remarks) the performance of one of the unprofessional plumbers.

Bathroom upgraded but not without problems, first of all they left all finished and the first time the bidet was used it flooded the bathroom.   :38:

Next the isolation tap went so, silly us, asked the same plumber to replace both taps.  That was Friday.

Today we have no water the 2400 litre reservoir is empty!!!!!   :c002:

Called Alan for help, our knight In shining armour, he sorted it.   :You_Rock_Emoticon:

What was wrong I hear you asking, the plumber turned off the water at the mains, when the job was finished took his money and left. 

Didn't  turn the water back on !!!!

Goes to say won't be using him again.