Residencia renewal... apparently not ??

[Tetley]

There will probably be a new directive soon saying we all need our heads examaning as well every 2 years,that should be intresting ,coz i can think of a few who aint gona meck it localy   ;)

[RoyBoy]

Hi all,went to Baza yesterday very nice chap,no waiting asked if the certificate needed renewing he said no it was for life.sorted   B

[Spectator]

After reading all this, point of vieuws, expierences, i came to a conclusion.

As there is NO expiration date on the green paper, it is good till the moment i loose it, and then i will ask e new one.
It saves me a lot of time, money, and aspirines.

If everybody is saying a different thing, my opinion is as good as the others.  sunrun

And if one Spaniard makes problems of it, i will say i will do it mañana

[derbydec]

then you are 50 euros out of pocket for something that can be done for free at Arboleas Town Hall  :head
there's your headbang ramblarider  :head  :tiphat:

[Gal]

I haven't got one to scan have I....so i'm going to have to sort one out.   A friend who works at a gestors says that for 50 euros they can sort out the appointment at Almeria.  The town hall immigrants person said that she could sort out the appointment for free.  Either way I still have to go to Almeria to get it all done.  Better safe than sorry here I guess.

[derbydec]

all you clever "peeps" (instead of a more offensive word) in this thread, WHY don't you scan your piece of paper and then we can compare what we've got to your "toilet paper"  ???

you can easily blank out the name and numbers, can't you?
looking forward to seeing your efforts really soon.
:tiphat:

[The Sheriff ILLIA.]

Sally Ant,

The Certificate has on it the date of renewal  our last one being  April 2010  which is not the date of our original registration because that was in the year 2000.

[jimmybeen]

'Sally-ant' thanks for the update (re the PM), that seems to be what the more general opinion is, the green paper is of very little worth but what is on file is another thing for tax & inheritance etc etc so one can renew and know that the official records are updated / renewed, so is very important, BUT the green form continues to be worth nothing at all. 

[Tetley]

Yer specialy here,yed probably end up wi no pants   ;D

[ramblarider]

I have just been speaking to a lady that translates and does this type of thing for a living and has confirmed that you do need to renew every 5 years, preferably at almeria, make and appointment and go...... so it looks like thats what we gotta do..... all of us.......

Is there a banging head on brick wall animated thingy on here? Needed urgently!

[cheekyseranos]

#

sally-ant, thats a good question, but one that probably doesnt matter, as its just that you ;need to register to say you still living in spain....

I have just been speaking to a lady that translates and does this type of thing for a living and has confirmed that you do need to renew every 5 years, preferably at almeria, make and appointment and go...... so it looks like thats what we gotta do..... all of us.......

[Sally-ant]

I hope Chalky won't mind me saying that he/she has confirmed what I thought.  Even a renewed certificate has the date you originally became resident in Spain, however many years ago that was.  In that case, how does anyone know whether you have renewed or not?

[jimmybeen]

I agree 'carolcr'  This subject has been raised many times before  Why PM if the answer is of interest to others ........ I wonder if 'Chalky' or 'Sally-ant' would please just give us a summery of the PM if it gives any answer to the stated question ...... this may be of some interest to many readers.

This is an important subject and many of us are pleased to have the opportunity to read members insights !

[carolcross]

Chalky, why so secretive? This topic is of interest to all of us. The question asked by Sallyant is pertinent to all of us. So could you please anwer it on the open forum so that we are ALL aware. Thanks

[Sally-ant]

I have a question for someone who has renewed their residencia certificate (I don't mean changing from the card to the certificate, but renewing the piece of paper).

What is the date on your new certificate?  Is is the date you renewed or still your initial date of residence?

I ask because the date on my certificate is in 2006, but I did not get it in 2006.  I got my NIE number in 2006 and the residencia certificate in 2007.

[Tetley]

Hells teeth Gal   ;) , good job you aint in  Arblatera   ,that simply wouldent do   ;D   :tiphat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jySUpMqmzd4&feature=related

[Gal]

yes, we married in the UK....  both children have British passports now as they lasted longer than the one Spanish one we had when eldest was a baby.

Blimey, i think i'm now going to have to go down to Almeria and sort it all out.  No one has ever asked me if I was resident here as I always give my NIE for everything.  I guess I can't then go to Lorca where a cousin works...  as that would be easier for me but it's in Murcia region.

[Tetley]

You see.. this is where the problem is. All these "official" and supposedly reliable sources putting out contradictory and confused information. Here's another piece of the jigsaw. I had two interesting conversations today with the EU Commission in Brussels. The first point they made was that according to EU regulations, permanent resident status should be (I quote) "free of additional administrative burden" once granted.  They take the view that this should mean no more applications and no more fees, of any kind, for anything. They then talked with someone in the minister's office in Madrid. Lo and behold! They were told that "now" the permanent residence certificate is valid for 10 years, not five!!! The official there even pointed out an example on the ministry website where this 10 year period is cited, though in the context on non-EU family members of an EU citizen. When asked if this definitely also applied to EU citizens, they simply did not know and were not able to answer! So, now a formal request for clarification from Brussels is being made to Madrid...... talk about total confusion. Hopefully, we will get a response in a week or so.

Brussels seemed quite bemused by their experience in trying to get a simple answer to a simple question from Madrid. They told me they are quite prepared to pursue the matter as it does appear to be placing an unwarranted administrative burden on EU citizens contrary to the spirit and intent of the regulations Madrid has signed up to. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

** Here's the text from the Ministry of Interior's own website referencing a TEN YEAR VALIDITY for at least one type of permanent residence certificate (so much for claims that all such official documents are only valid for 5 years).

La expedición de la tarjeta de residencia permanente de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión deberá realizarse en el plazo de los tres meses siguientes a la presentación de la solicitud. Dicha tarjeta tendrá una validez de diez años a partir de la fecha de expedición.

'The issuance of permanent residence card for family members of Union citizens must be made ​​within three months following the filing of the application. This card is valid for ten years from the date of issue.'

Thank you Ramblarider for a well put together post and proof that there are no substitues for inteligence .  :tiphat:

[Gal]

I've been here since 2004 and don't have Residencia...as thought that being part of Europe was enough.  Now i'm worried as I need to sell some land that I own.  Can I do the residencia now and then sell and not get hammered by the authorities??   EEKKKKK!!!????

[ramblarider]

You see.. this is where the problem is. All these "official" and supposedly reliable sources putting out contradictory and confused information. Here's another piece of the jigsaw. I had two interesting conversations today with the EU Commission in Brussels. The first point they made was that according to EU regulations, permanent resident status should be (I quote) "free of additional administrative burden" once granted.  They take the view that this should mean no more applications and no more fees, of any kind, for anything. They then talked with someone in the minister's office in Madrid. Lo and behold! They were told that "now" the permanent residence certificate is valid for 10 years, not five!!! The official there even pointed out an example on the ministry website where this 10 year period is cited, though in the context on non-EU family members of an EU citizen. When asked if this definitely also applied to EU citizens, they simply did not know and were not able to answer! So, now a formal request for clarification from Brussels is being made to Madrid...... talk about total confusion. Hopefully, we will get a response in a week or so.

Brussels seemed quite bemused by their experience in trying to get a simple answer to a simple question from Madrid. They told me they are quite prepared to pursue the matter as it does appear to be placing an unwarranted administrative burden on EU citizens contrary to the spirit and intent of the regulations Madrid has signed up to. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

** Here's the text from the Ministry of Interior's own website referencing a TEN YEAR VALIDITY for at least one type of permanent residence certificate (so much for claims that all such official documents are only valid for 5 years).

La expedición de la tarjeta de residencia permanente de familiar de ciudadano de la Unión deberá realizarse en el plazo de los tres meses siguientes a la presentación de la solicitud. Dicha tarjeta tendrá una validez de diez años a partir de la fecha de expedición.

'The issuance of permanent residence card for family members of Union citizens must be made ​​within three months following the filing of the application. This card is valid for ten years from the date of issue.'

[Betty]

Received today our residencia renewal permanent and was issued the card type and was told that we have tò renew again in 5 years,this was at Almeria+

[castawaysuk]

You do need the residencia renewed as it does hinder you at times if you dont.  I recieve Spanish "family allowance" every six months for my two children and I had a letter from the social security office informing me that my residencia was due for renewal and if it was not renewed by the expiry date, I would not recieve any more payments until it was.

To apply for this money in the first place, myself, my husband and my children had to have valid residencia certificates.

So im sure there will be other times when a valid residencia certificate/card needs to be shown.

[Sally-ant]

This is another of those topics which will run and run, with everyone having a different opinion.  The date on my residencia certificate is not the date on which I received the certificate, but the date on which I received my NIE number, which was a year earlier, so I have no intention of going through the hoops to get another piece of paper.  This piece of paper has no use as a method of identification and contains only my NIE number, so I see no reason to get another one.

That's my decision and everyone else is entitled to make up their own minds.   :tiphat:

[optomist]

The card started this week replacing the A4 paper one , its cardboard with a plastic front and has no photo or fingerprint . Apparently you will be renewing each 5 years to confirm your residency in Spain thats all .

[pgj]

Hi - Just thought I would add my twopennthworth to the topic.

I have just returned from Almeria after applying for my residencia.  I went with a couple of other people and a respresentative of Vera Advisors, who completed all the necessary paperwork, paid the bank charge.  We were driven down, sat at the little table, received my Residencia straight away - a card by the way, not the A4 sheet of paper that has been mentioned on here.  No photographs needed. It cost me 120 euros  - including transport - which I think was well worth it.  According to the official the 'Residencia' has to be renewed 2017 after 5 years

Cheers
Judith Jenkins

[The Sheriff ILLIA.]

I have today received a reply from Joanne Tissington who is the English Representative in Albox Ayuntamiento - which in reply to my question as to whether residencia has to be renewed every five years.

Her answer-   having made sure of the facts with the relevant authority - is as below

Dear Fred

In common with all official documents, the certificates have a life span and must be renewed after 5 years, even though the actual residencia (ie being on the foreigners´register) may be permanent.  

The date of the certificate is printed in words in the last paragraph just above the signature.  

This is true for whatever province the certificate was obtained in.


Therefore although you do not have to renew your residencia every 5 years - you do have to renew the Certificate which is the only proof you have that you are a Resident.

[The Sheriff ILLIA.]

Tetley,

It's going to take a lot of looking at because not only is there a difference between Residents & Non Residents there is also a difference between the allowances for Spanish Nationals from Province to Province.

I don't know how many are like Andalucia but Andalucia's maximum IT allowance for  Resident is € 140,000 - in Granada it's only € 16,400 - that is why most Spanish properties are bequeath to as many relations as possible to maximise the allowances.   

[ramblarider]

Yes, I know they are looking at it. Just as they looked at other discriminatory taxes and forced changes there. As with all such things, though, it may take some time to filter through. Meantime, if the new Spanish government want to make some savings on totally useless bureaucracy, the bloated department currently dealing with 'residencias' for EU citizens would seem a good place to start.

[Tetley]

Rambler

just out of intrest ,the EU  are at present looking into the Spanish diffrence in IHT  allowances between residents and non residents because the EU are  saying its not on ,so wether anything gets sorted will be intresting however at the moment ,if folks aint resident & tax resident for a min of 5 years ,its open wallet surgery on a recent build,unless its been correctly valued by the state ,ie IBI registerd / valued.

T  :tiphat:

[ramblarider]

This whole 'residencia' thing is a colossal waste of everyone's time and money. It actually does nothing at all. Most EU countries do not bother with it for EU citizens. It is purely and simply a register of 'foreigners'. Nothing more, nothing less. It does not give you 'permission' to live here, as you don't need permission in the first place. You already have it as an EU citizen. The linkage with Spanish IHT is about the only 'useful' thing it does, but that could be achieved by other means just as easily (as other countries manage to do). As stated above, I suspect the main reason is job creation for bureaucrats!

[loafer]

The email address for booking residencia appointment is cita.almeria@map.es

You need to include:
Your name
DOB
Passport number
Nationality
NIE number

Hope this helps

Ta Muchly  :)

[Tetley]

I gave them my new address as issued by town hall (about as much use as a chocolate fireguard)  

Yes i carnt quite join this one up,all our paperwork for everything in spain offical is from our orignal address ,then some bone head turned up at our house telling us we had gone from No 1b because orignaly there was a house / ruin as the first house on the ( No 1 )road and we were the second house on the road  befor the area was devoloped now we have  number 23 (in theory ) so now were supposed to just change everything  over  so as to have the correct address for all our paperwork to make it legal. (again ) :drinks:

dont you all just luv progress   :head

[ES]

The last 2 times that I was pulled by the Guardia, they asked for my address in Spain, driver and car docs, and my NIE or Residencia.
 
I gave them my new address as issued by town hall (about as much use as a chocolate fireguard) UK driving licence, Spanish car docs, and my NIE No which I had written on a bit of paper.

They seemed to check these out on their radio/phone and sent us on our way.

Our paper residencia certificates are 5 years old now and still say that we are registered on the register.  Why would I want the bother of getting a new one, it confers no benefits. 

As I see it, what is important is that we are fiscal residents as far as the spanish tax office is concerned.   That does confer benefits.

Now that is important.

As for the spanish civil servants telling people to renew there residencia every 5 years, that is just them keeping themselves in a job.  They are all a bunch of Jobsworths.

[gus-lopez]

I am not confusing anything.

Read the full text of the directive. The residence certificate is not equivalent to a Spanish Citizens ID (DNI) card (which is subject to periodic renewal). It expressly is not an identification document.

This is correct ,the SP citizens use,s there DNI  card for proof of id & state registered purcheses ie cars,and i THINK  they can even use it for air travel within the EU at the points of entry like we use our passport,were as the residencia cert always normaly needs to be used with a passport for ID.

They can use it for any means of travel. My neighbour uses only his DNI when he goes ,in his sons lorry, to the UK.

[castawaysuk]

The email address for booking residencia appointment is cita.almeria@map.es

You need to include:
Your name
DOB
Passport number
Nationality
NIE number

Hope this helps