NEW PRESCRIPTION CHARGES

[Lesley and Pete]

Thank you for your apology Alfie.  It is easy to misread posts on this forum.

There is, however, a big difference between the 'rights' to healthcare of people in receipt of a pension and those not of pensionable age.  In the majority of cases it is the younger age group that resort to maintaining a UK presence for the purposes of receiving health care, usually using family addresses to retain their registration and travelling to the UK when necessary.  For some the cost of private health cover here in Spain is too high and their ability of find legal paid and contract based employment is neglible.  In our case, we needed to ensure continued health care for hubby, (serious heart condition), therefore I had to set up a legal business that would enable health cover here in Spain until he reaches pension age.  Not easy, but absolutely essential and has proved to be a very worthwhile action.  We have had cause to use both primary and specialist health care since we moved here, including inpatient and and at all levels, (with the exception of initial major problems with the same 'witch' that Louise mentions), everything has been first class. 

[Louise]

Gus-Lopez; thank you so much for this link! My home country is clearly stated on the list. What I always mentioned in my arguements here at the forum and at the medical center (when the "witch" was there....)

Alfie; before my health care issues were sorted (husband given pension because of an accident at work, me not workeing nor receiving income/paro, young kid) we were alway "watched", as we were gaining, making a profit of the Spanish system.... We paid our contribution, as obliged by the law, in our home country.
The member states invoice each other (for emergencies and illnesses/treatments)

and you simply can´t be ILL in two countries at the same time, so it is pure logic that in the EU, if someone pays his contribution, it is covered by the bilateral agreements.

[alfie]

Lesley - my apologies - I mis-understood your post and therefore stand corrected. Very sorry
Some of the later posts seem to me to be very ambiguous - I still do not understand how you can get full health care in any other country other than your country of residence. Yes, if you break your leg you will get care in most EC countries, but if you have an 'on-going' health issue - such as a 'dicky' heart - most countries will only give you care for life threatening situations, not on-going drugs.

[gus-lopez]

UK State Pensioners

"UK state pensioners who have lived in the UK for ten
continuous years at some point in the past are entitled to
'treatment the need for which arises during a visit to the UK'
free of charge. "

In addition;
UK ex-pats of other EEA member states,
Switzerland or another bilateral
arrangement country.

"If you have lived in the UK for ten continuous years at some
point but are now living in an EEA member state or another
country with which the UK has a bilateral healthcare agreement,
then, under UK law, you are entitled free of charge to treatment
the need for which arises here. This includes treatment needed
where the diagnosis of a condition is made when first symptoms
arise during a visit to the UK. It also applies where, in the opinion
of a doctor or dentist employed by the trust, treatment is needed
quickly to prevent a pre-existing condition increasing in severity. It
does include the routine treatment of pre-existing conditions, nor
planned treatment."

Regardless of EU membership Spain & the Uk have a bi-lateral healthcare agreement. Therefore you are entitled if you have lived in the UK for 10 continuous years.

[Norm2]

But in the link the UK is not mentioned.

So how I read it if you live in Spain but get a pension from the UK you can't get free heathcare in the UK.

My belief is that has always been the case. However, some ex-pats I suspect manage to keep a GP in the UK using a relative's address and possibly also keep their name on the electoral register. As a Spanish resident and an ex-pat visiting the UK you are entitled to emergency treatment only (as a Spanish national) but not access to the full NHS services. I'm sure everyone will cry "foul" we have contributed for x number of years. But these are the rules as explained to me by our GP.

[carwyn99]

But in the link the UK is not mentioned.

So how I read it if you live in Spain but get a pension from the UK you can't get free heathcare in the UK.

[gus-lopez]

Lesley - not quite sure how a trip back to your UK GP will help. If you are registered on the Spanish health system, you must have 'de-registered' from the UK NHS, and therefore you will only be entitled to emergency health care in the UK. You will therefore no longer be registered with a GP and so will not be able to get a prescription.
You cannot have your cake and eat it!

Slightly off-topic & I know it has now been clarified by lesley but for the benefit of Alfie & others ; Those who are in receipt of a pension from one country ( e.g. UK ) & are legal residents in another country ( e.g. spain ) are entitled to full healthcare in BOTH countries.

" Healthcare coverage in the country where you used to work "

" You are entitled to complete healthcare coverage in both the country which pays your pension  and the country where you now live (if these are different)."

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/retire/healthcare/index_en.htm

[Lesley and Pete]

Thanks Byrney - this is also one prescribed by the heart specialist at HO - its not a problem, just an large expense, (costs just over 24 euros a month which is more than our two 'capped' prescriptions put together).  A trip to the GP in Albox will soon sort it out.

It is so sad that so many people still return to the UK for their health care, (presumably the reason for Alfie assuming thats what I was on about!), when they can get far superior care here.  I'm speaking from experience here & am well able to compare the service provided in the UK with that in Spain.

Hope your care continues to keep you well.

Lesley

[byrney]

Yes Lesley, I though he´d mis-read your message as well.
I would hope that a visit back to your Doc might well mean that your hubby´s drug will be included in his prescription, and at least a suitable alternative prescribed.
I´m also under the heart specialist at HO and he tried to prescribe an expensive drug (probably same as your hubby´s) but after a visit to my local GP I´ve now got an alternative (at a fraction of the cost) which seems fine.
Good luck.

[Lesley and Pete]

Alfie - you must have misunderstood my posting - we have not had a UK GP or UK healthcare support for many years.  Through my business, I pay my seguridad social autonomo every month and we are registered with a GP in Albox, recieving all our generic medical care through her and all specialist care through Spanish hospital specialists.  We will be asking our GP for advice regarding a change to the 'un-listed' drug. 

Lesley

[alfie]

Lesley - not quite sure how a trip back to your UK GP will help. If you are registered on the Spanish health system, you must have 'de-registered' from the UK NHS, and therefore you will only be entitled to emergency health care in the UK. You will therefore no longer be registered with a GP and so will not be able to get a prescription.
You cannot have your cake and eat it!

[Louise]

If I have more info, I will post it here.
Maybe ask the pharmacist? They will explain it, if they know. But the health care system is still not sorted out completely.
We don´t have monthly medicine (except antihistamine of 2,46 euro for my daughter in spring and summer). We depend on what diseases catch us   sunrun

Heather, I surely believe that fiscal residency is required to have this maximum-factura of 8€
... they put you automatically on TSI 002 (max 18€) and watch the medicine list (think posted on page 2)
Next week we see an asesor regarding this registering for hacienda.

Lesley, also talk to the pharmacist: he can see in the system what other medicine exists with the composition you need. Maybe other names are at a reduced price.

Good luck, and good health!

[Heather Reed]

Thanks Louise for the link.
I only wish I was on 18,000 or more per year!!!
I couldn't find anywhere on the link with instructions on how to claim back the extra which is now 30 euros and will be an extra 120 per year which I can ill afford.

[Lesley and Pete]

Like 'Heather Reed' we have also had our prescriptions capped, except for one tablet that hubby has been on since we first came out here - prescribed by the cardiology specialist at Huercal Overa.  That one is not included on the 'list' now and so costs just over 24 euros a month - for the one drug!  A trip back to the GP is called for I think, to find an alternative.

Lesley

[guest4538]

an overview
http://www.saludinforma.es/opencms/opencms/Otros/Campanias/SaludInforma_farmacia.html

That's astonishing!

I believe that the maximum anyone has to pay in the UK is £8.67/month (£104/annum for a Prescription Prepayment Certificate), irrespective of income! And many, including pensioners, pay nothing!

[Louise]

an overview
http://www.saludinforma.es/opencms/opencms/Otros/Campanias/SaludInforma_farmacia.html

[Heather Reed]

Hi geoffp34,

I have been capped at 18 euros for 3 months running now.

[geoffp34]

Haven't learnt a lot from my advisor although it appears there is a document the Spanish have to get from their bank to verify to the Hacienda that they are on a low income. Don't understand that as a declaration made to the Hacienda has to be supported by bank statements, etc.
In the meantime, is there anyone out there whose prescriptions have been capped at €8?  In other words, whose 10% charge would have exceeded the €8 had it not been capped?
Also, has anyone within Andalucia found out precisely how we can claim back the amounts we have paid in excess of €8?  If it's a one-off, it would hardly be worth the hassle, but if it's a regular monthly occurrence .....

[Louise]

thank you Alfie , for these encouraging words.
I also do believe that once it is started (their system) it works great....

we just await our correos (don´t want to waste time with scans or copies from our social system in our home country - the originals come by mail)

Sheriff, I will resend my email and try to phone them on Monday - if  we get lucky with the mail, we can bring them the riginal documents and have it all sorted out.


Bien finde (already)

[alfie]

My wife and I, thanks to Fred, use Marina, and this year made a tax declaration for the first time for 3 years, although Marina told us that it was not really necessary. We had a tax rebate that basically paid for Marina's fee's although our bank managed to gobble up most of the rebate in bank charges [but's that's another story].
Anyway, the crux of my post is that my wife went to our local doctor last week, got a prescription [on the green electronic health card] for various pills, took her card to the chemist, got her pills and paid 70c [ie 10% of the cost of the prescription]
So, the system can work !
Can i just add that the NHS has spent billions of pounds trying to develop an integrated 'smart card' for health care and have basically given up, whereas here in Spain my wife and I both have cards that with one 'swipe' will allow any doctor to view our complete medical history.

[The Sheriff ILLIA.]

Louise,

Cannot understand that my e-mails are normally answered the same day ?

Anyway if you just call in to see Marina next time you are in Huercal  I am sure you will not be disappointed.

This next month the office is only open 9.00 / 2.00 pm and Marina will be on holiday from the 13th August for one week.

[Louise]

Thank you for this advise.
Sheriff, I also received your pm with the data of the fiscal asesor, but have not received a reply on the email I wrote and did not manage to ring them (open until 2pm, but answering machine)
It is August anyway....and correos did not bring anything yet because we are also awaiting our S1 that will make things less complicated (we hope)

Thank you also for the links on tumbit and the item on typicallyspanish, posted above!

[The Sheriff ILLIA.]

People who have not registered on the  Fiscal Registry - should now seek advice before doing so ?

As the time has past for this year -  June 1st ? { not quite sure of the exact day in June } anyone making a Fiscal Return now - will be fined for making a late return.???  

This I checked only this week with our Advisor  - late returns are still Fined - whereas if you leave it until next year - and make a return at the correct time  - you will not be Fined - even if you have made no previous returns - but should have done ?.

While on the subject of Gestorias { Fiscal Advisors }  Many people are making annual returns - when there is no need for them to do so - and are being charged a lot of money by the advisors to do these  un-necessary returns.

If anyone requires details of a Gestoria who will { Free of Charge }  look at what they are doing currently / Check with the Hacienda while you are there to see if you are Registered or not / and then tell you what you need to do - either immediately or next year to avoid Fines -  please PM me for details.

If you are unsure do not leave it until May next year before checking what you should do - get it sorted NOW while you have plenty of time.

[p2une]

Thank you for the info Roger, although I did state that I visited Albox salud, where I was given this information.  I live in the Albox area.
I checked with our asesoria about fiscal residency - she checked with the hacienda who confirmed that I am registered. 
It appears that some areas are getting things right but not others.  The chemist I use is Felix's by the way, it was Magdalena who told me to go to the salud to check details.  I'd be interested to know if anyone else who uses them has managed to get the reduced rate. 
Am not interested in claiming a refund for the payment already made, sounds like too much trouble for 8 euros (I was charged 16 euros).  But what I do want is to avoid paying it every time if I'm not supposed to and how to go about getting it put right.

June

[geoffp34]

Grateful for all advice. Re Roger's post, I would have got my advisor to check with the Hacienda but, guess what? - she's currently on holiday! From my experience, it is necessary to submit a return, even if it is a nil one, in order to get the all-important certificate of "Residencia Fiscal en Espana. Convenio" However, once obtained, having notified an income below the threshold, it SHOULD not be necessary to submit another nil return.  I should know more in a week or so.

[gus-lopez]

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_35485.shtml

The above covers number 5 Articulo 3 , page 31285 in the BoE.
" 5. Aquellas personas que no tengan la condición de asegurado o de beneficiario del mismo podrán obtener la prestación de asistencia sanitaria mediante el pago de la correspondiente contraprestación o cuota derivada de la suscripción de un convenio especial "

[Roger]

Perhaps an obvious point, but for those who are being charged over the 8 euros per month, have you got your abogado or financial adviser to go on the hacienda data base to check that you are actually registered on it?

It is quite easy to think you are registered, but may have bene informed that you do not need to register because your income is below the threshold.

[geoffp34]

Many thanks, Richard, for this info.  But, as you say, the forms are for Valencia and have "Generalitat Valenciana" at the top.  If anyone has similar information for Andaliucia, I and many others would be delighted to share it. For my part, I shall keep digging and will post any new information that I receive.

[gus-lopez]

geoffp34.

Here's how it works ,links ,etc. The links though are for Valencia.

http://www.tumbit.com/how-to-guides/articles/209-applying-for-your-spanish-prescription-charge-reimbursement.html

[Queen Clare Shirley]

I think everyone is in the dark about this the pharmacies get their info relatively shortly before big changes.
I would imagine it woud have something to do with the green office in Huercal Overa

[geoffp34]

There appears to be a lot of confusion about who should pay for prescriptions and how much. As a pensioner, U.K. or wherever, including Spanish, with an income of less than 18000 euros per year, we should be paying 10% of the prescription cost with a maximum of 8 euros. The only advice I have received is that I can claim from the Junta within the following six months any amounts I have paid in excess of the 8 euros. I, and many others, need to know precisely how we can claim this. In my view, the chemists should be in possession of this information, but this is not the case. If anyone can unravel the mystery, there are many who would like to know.

[byrney]

Roger,
There´s no connection here between problems being experienced and those having followed advice on here that Residencias do not need to be renewed?
We renewed ours (contrary to advice, and, YES, I know all about the EU law etc etc) and haven´t experienced any problems with the new system.
Just a thought.

[Roger]

You do not say where you live.

In Andalucia the system is on the computer, although they have admitted to some teething problems.
In other areas I believe it is not as well organised.

Certainly in Andalucia the computer has the information from the hacienda as to whether you are a fiscal resident.
Only they can decide, not the health authorities.

Everyone I have met in Arboleas, including my wife, have found the system to be working correctly.

[gus-lopez]

My husband and I are both fiscal residents, but I was charged 16.33 two weeks ago for prescriptions.  When I queried it with the pharmacist I was told that the only information they have is that I am a pensioner and they know nothing about paying the maximum of 8 euros.  They told me to visit the salud in Albox and get them to amend the details on my card.

When I went I was told that this is not true - that we are the same as Spanish pensioners and must pay the whole 10 per cent.  I have a lot of prescriptions and would end up paying about 20 euros most months.

If she is right and we all have to pay 10 per cent, so be it - but if not, then I'm sure I don't want to pay double what I should each month! If anyone is actually paying a maximum of 8 euros, then I would be grateful for information on how this is achieved.

June

It is all in here:
http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2012/04/24/pdfs/BOE-A-2012-5403.pdf

Page 31297;

Trece/ «Artículo 94 bis. Aportación de los beneficiarios en la prestación farmacéutica ambulatoria.

Number 7,

7. El importe de las aportaciones que excedan estos montos será objeto de reintegro por la comunidad autónoma correspondiente, con una periodicidad máxima semestral.

The overpayments are reclaimed from the autonomous region & have to be claimed/re-paid within 6 months.

[p2une]

My husband and I are both fiscal residents, but I was charged 16.33 two weeks ago for prescriptions.  When I queried it with the pharmacist I was told that the only information they have is that I am a pensioner and they know nothing about paying the maximum of 8 euros.  They told me to visit the salud in Albox and get them to amend the details on my card.

When I went I was told that this is not true - that we are the same as Spanish pensioners and must pay the whole 10 per cent.  I have a lot of prescriptions and would end up paying about 20 euros most months.

If she is right and we all have to pay 10 per cent, so be it - but if not, then I'm sure I don't want to pay double what I should each month! If anyone is actually paying a maximum of 8 euros, then I would be grateful for information on how this is achieved.

June