NEW PRESCRIPTION CHARGES

[geoffp34]

Further to my previous posts, it appears that there are many pensioners, UK and Spanish, who, in spite of being registered with the Hacienda and being on a low income, are being charged 10% of all prescriptions without the maximum of 8 euros being applied (I have already paid 15 euros this month). I have ascertained that those affected can, by keeping the receipts, claim back all they have paid in any calendar month over 8 euros. How and from whom we can claim is still a mystery. If anyone can enlighten me, I would be very grateful.

[Louise]

I posted the medicine list on page 2

It makes sense that if the prescription is on the list, it is not counting for the maximum-bill of a monthly 8 euro (only for pensioners)

I asked around at a lot of places and with many people, but got no answer to confirm my "thinking": you can only be registered as a 8 euro max- pensioner when you are linked in the SS and the hacienda(tax-office)
In the main office in Huercal they state that this is not the case

Weird experiences so far - for the last 2 weeks (spending time at doctor´s office, medical center in Huercal, the hospital, and  the main office of SS:
Neighbour (EU but not UK - non pensioner -  got his heart medicine on green receipts 40% - he now pays 100%)
Ourselves (EU but not UK - pensioner and family - got red receipts until end July - later switched to 100% - later switched to status TSI 004 (meaning EHIC or medicine at 50%)


I think it is best to try and get the best person (or the friendliest one) and stop looking for logic here....

to be continuud....

next week: we´ll try to register onto the fiscal rsidency and trade the EHIC´s for an Andalucian SS card
just fed up with being treated like a monkey that fell out of a tree.......I gave up the logic....

[Popsie]

Well that is what we thought but as we are unable to register on tax system until September according to our gestoria,[they are busy] that may be a reason why hubby was charged two lots of maximum. These are anti rejection tablets and they tried to change medication to a cheaper brand but it was not possible for him to use these, however, they have now been brought down in price level with any others available. Gosh I hope we dont have to pay full price, dont mind at all paying the maximum, but they are very expensive.

[Griffin81]

The way I understand it the total monthly charge is 8€ regardless of when or how often you go within the month, this is from a pensioners situation and registered for tax etc that has been posted previously.

Just be careful that the drugs used are not being removed from the prescribing list as you will have to pay full price for each item (if you can have them at all), although I am sure any good doctor may try to find an alternative that is still on the prescibing list.

[Popsie]

Is The maximum amount payable each month just that or if you have to go twice a month as some tablets are only issued every two week, do to you pay another E8

[Griffin81]

It's not just the new charges for the prescriptions, i've just been to my local doctors this morning and also certain drugs are being removed from the prescibing lists.
This maybe high value drugs or frequently prescribed ones that are available over the counter without the need for a prescription.

The one drug I was prescribed today will be removed from the list from next month, so if I wish to still take this it will cost me 69€ a month.

So from next month it's a maxium of 8€ per month for my one drug and the other drug 69€ OR DIE!

[billandjess]

   Ok.  We believe that you are all well educated People:  So please will you read Roger's, and The Sheriff's, Post. above. it is all good information.
We all live in Spain. ?   Or are you in beteen.   That's correct, we have joined the Club:
  As we see it:  If you do not get all your Spanish Paper-work in order. And please do not post some rules from the EU.  We believe that Spain, have not joined that Club. ? Or may be for the benefits only.  Read the said Post above.  
 Or just leave one hell of a problem for your Wife, Husband,  or your Children,  to deal with. When you are looking down, from the White Cloud overhead.  Or Below. ++= ++=
 Best Regards.  Just William  

[sandralos]

Thanks Clare for the information - didnt know that information - my prescriptions are red by the way.......  Not going to worry now.

[Queen Clare Shirley]

What happpens when you are given a wrong colour card in the first place - we are pensioners and were issued with red cards.   Went back to Huercal Overa - clerk said was not necessary to change to green....   It goes on and on!!!

Red cards are the old social security cards issued before 2006 then they starting to issue green cards, it has nothing to do with what you pay or what band you fall into (pensioner, worker) ALL CARDS ARE THE SAME COLOUR , those who are pensioner will have a P on their cards , mine hasnt got anything as I am a worker and pay 40%

[geoffp34]

Being a pensioner on low income and with a tax certificate, I was given to understand I would pay no more than 8 euros per month. Today, the total I have paid this month exceeded 8 euros. The pharmacist in Arboleas says I should go to "Atencion del usario" in Albox medical centre.  It appears, as with previous posts, the system is not working as it should.  If anyone should find out anything in Albox medical centre before I manage to get there, perhaps they would post their findings.

[Heather Reed]

It seems that this system has definitely not been thought through properly before putting into action.

I have only been paying the 10% since 1st.July but by the 23rd. this had totalled up to 18.00 euros. Then yesterday I collected some more items and wasn't charged anything although one of the items was very expensive.

It doesn't make sense but I'm pleased they have at last called a halt even if it's 10 euros too much.

How does one find out what code you are on?

[Louise]

after wasting several hours in Huercal Overa in the small office opposite the bus station, we just go to the administration desk in the hospital. The also do the invoicing to the EU and foreign countries, so they don´t treat you like abusers of the system.

I guess that in the first place it is of importance that your recipes are given in the right colour (red for pensioners registered here with S1 at the SS - green for non-pensioners registered at SS or pensioners with IHEC, without S1 and registration in Spain )

Just now found out that an S1 can be given to you by your NHS without exiting the country finally. You can do it on a temporary base.
In furure, we´ll have to do it like that, because we´re still linked to our homecountry (early pension caused by working accident and specific medical car in home countrty needed)

Sandralos, what colour do your prescriptions have?

To all...as from August, more than 150 medicines will disappear from the list. Costs are 100%....please check the list I posted above and do some damage control for your own sake and budget......

[sandralos]

What happpens when you are given a wrong colour card in the first place - we are pensioners and were issued with red cards.   Went back to Huercal Overa - clerk said was not necessary to change to green....   It goes on and on!!!

[Louise]

Update: for residents with a EHIC: within the Spanish system, it is now impossible to get a status for red or green prescription.
Pensioners with a permanent residencia, but unable to transfer their pension / socials to Spain are now given the status TSI 004

The "thickbox" in the computer system don´t appear to choose or amend "farmacia"

I got great help and explaining of how it is working, and the clerk said there were some serious problems, it was not already up and running.

What I stated earlier: I think it is linked to fiscal residency: they all say NOOOOOOOOO, but....what about the maximumbill of 8 euros for the lowest pensions?

Anyhow, TSI 004 means: you pay 50% of the medicine cost
Prescription is on green recetas (which make the pharmacias charge you 40%)

Sorry guys, it stays complicated.... in total, I waited and moved and spoke during 5 days for 10 hours and still haven´t found the solution. Because it does not exist....it is a twilight zone.

[Louise]

it is the same advise I got from 3 gestors, within the past 2 years: without a charge, but I don´t have proof and now can go and do all the paperwork , because the seguridad social and hacienda are linked. not registered for hacienda ?  -----> no medical.....

but, must say, I believe we became the target of an employee who can enter the system and changed our status....

[NormanM]

We visited the Gestoria recommended by the Sherrif a couple of days ago.  Marina explained clearly what our obligations were, called the Hacienda to ensure we were properly registered, and gave us all the advice we needed.  She explained that if your income is below the taxable threshold you do NOT have to make a nil return - and mentioned to that many 'tax advisors' tell their clients otherwiseso that the can charge them for making a nil return.

This service cost us exactly NOTHING!  Incredible.

[ES]

Many thanks for the info Gus Lopez.  Must have been away when that came out in the free sheets.

[gus-lopez]

Gus Lopez stated £3500 a year, please expand?

Dear Mrs *****,

                                  Thank you for your corre­spondence about healthcare for UK state pensioners resident in Spain. I have been asked to reply.

Under European Union Regulations. member states of the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland are required to meet the cost of any state-provided health­care given to that country's state pension­ers when such pensioners choose to live in a different EEA Member State from the one that pays the pension. A member state can do this either by charging the actual cost per health episode or by charging an annu­al average cost per pensioner.

The UK and Spain choose to bill other Member States for their state pensioners through the average cost option. Therefore,  the UK will pay Spain around £3,500 per year for each UK state pension­er's medical care. A very similar charge is levied by the UK for Spanish state pension­ers residing in the UK.
I hope this reply is helpful.
Yours sincerely,

PETER WOZNIAK,
Ministerial Correspondence and Public Enquiries,
Department of Health



Estimado Señora *****,
Gracias por su correspondencia sobre asistencia médica para residente  pensionistas británico estatal en España. Me han pedido contestar.

Bajo la Unión Europea Regulaciones. requieren los Estados miembros del Área europea Económica (EEA) y Suiza para encontrar el coste de cualquier asistencia médico proporcionada por estado dada a los pensionistas estatales de aquel país cuando tales pensionistas deciden vivir en un Estado miembro diferente EEA del que que pagos la pensión. Un Estado miembro puede hacer esto por cobrando el coste real por episodio de salud o por cobrando un promedio anual cuesta por pensionista.

El Reino Unido y España deciden facturar otros Estados miembros para sus pensionistas estatales por la opción de coste media. Por lo tanto, el Reino Unido pagará España alrededor £ 3,500 por año , aproximadamente 4,250€ para la asistencia médica de cada pensionista británico estatal. Un cantidad muy similar es impuesto por el Reino Unido para pensionistas españoles estatales que residen en el UK.
I esperan que esta respuesta sea provechosa.

Atentamente
PETER WOZNIAK,
Ministerial Correspondence and Public Enquiries,
Department of Health

[ES]

Gus Lopez stated £3500 a year, please expand?

[Louise]

posted in another topic as well: hereunder the list of non-refundable medicines:

-Tratamientos para el exceso de secreción gástrica:

Compuestos de aluminio, combinaciones de complejos de aluminio. Es decir, antiácidos como el Almax.

-Tratamientos del estreñimiento:

Laxantes generadores de volumen, laxantes osmóticos, antagonistas de opiáceos (receptor opiáceo periférico).

-Tratamientos antidiarréicos:

Preparados con carbón antipropulsivos (loperamida). Lo que dejaría fuera medicamentos como el Fortasec.

-Tratamientos de la migraña:

Tratamiento clásico de migraña leve, alcaloides de Ergot (cornezuelo).

-Tratamientos del deterioro congnitivo asociado a la edad:

Vasodilatadores periféricos (vicamina, vinburmina, buflomedil, naftidrofurilo), piracetam, pirisudanol, ésteres de deanol, extracto de ginko folium.

-Tratamientos de hemorroides:

Corticoides (flucinolona, beclometasona). Lo que afectaría a cremas como el Synalar.

-Tratamientos de varices y hemorroides:

Bioflavonoides (diosmina, troxerutina, hidrosmina, rutosido escina). Es decir, pastillas como el Venoruton.

-Tratamientos de la dermatitis del pañal:

Cremas con bajas dosis de miconazol (derivado del imidazol).

-Tratamientos de la psoriasis:

Extracto de calaguala.

-Tratamientos de virosis tópicas o superficiales:

Idoxuridina, tromantadina, aciclovir, podofilotoxina, imiquimod. Quedarían por tanto fuera tratamientos para dermatosis, lesiones de la piel e infecciones víricas. Algunas importantes, como los codilomas acumulados, una enfermedad de transmisión sexual producida por el virus del papiloma humano, que se trata con podofilotoxina o imiquimod.

-Tratamientos de inflamaciones de origen traumático:

Antiflamatorios no esteroideos tópicos (etofenemato, piroxicam, ketoprofeno, diclofenaco, ácido niflumico, suxibuzona, indometacina, aceclofenac, fenilbutazona, bencidamina mabruprofeno, desketoprofeno, piketoprofeno, fepradinol). Esto afectaría a cremas como el Voltarén, Fastum o Calmatel.

-Tratamientos de la ansiedad leve:

Extracto de passiflora y crataebus, oxitriptan.

-Tratamientos de la sequedad de vías respiratorias superiores:

Mucolíticos (acetilcisteína, bromhexina, carbocisteina, mesna, ambrosoli, sobrerol). Un gran grupo, indicado para el tratamiento de resfriados.

-Tratamientos de la tos:

Alcaloides del opio (codeína) y derivados (noscapina, dextrometorfano, dimemorfano, dihidro codeína). Muchos jarabes, como el Bisolvon, tienen como base el dextrometorfano.

-Tratamientos de la sequedad ocular:

Lágrimas artificiales con carmelosa como agente humectante.

-Tratamientos de la inflamación reumatoide leve:

Diacereina. Productos indicados para la atrosis de rodilla.

-Tratamientos de dislipemias leves:

Triglicéricos omega 3. Indicados para afectaciones leves de los triglicéridos (como el Omecor).

-Tratamientos sintomáticos de la congestión nasal asociada a gripe o resfriado:

Fármacos simpaticomiméticos (pseudoefedrina, fenilefrina).

[gus-lopez]

Thank you for your reply.
I thought so too, Gus (we had the red prescriptions for a couple of years - always combined with the tarjeta europea - yearly renewal of the AN-number when we received the new card)
I also heard that there are lots of medicines that are on a list of non-retribution (but I doubt general wide spectrum antibiotics are amongst them).
I also know that the medicine on red papers were at zero % (green at 40%) cost and recently (1st July /2012) the 0% became 10%. But I understood that this had changed because of the government rules and taxation ideas....
Now I heard that it is because we pay our taxes AND social security in our home country (tax base) and that Spain refuses to send the bill to our country. We have to pay in advance and WE have to send it to the social in our country.

I go to the office of Huercal Overa to try and sort this out (if i´m not too ill) and will post my reply here.


But I seriously doubt if they have treated me correct at the medical center.
Or....if I am not yet in the tax system here and this system is linked to the seguridad social....they did just "deactivated" us.

I will keep you updated if there is more news that might be of interest! If someone knows already more, please let me know!

yesI think you have hit the nail on the head there. If you are not in the tax system they will put you on full payment , even though the UK pays Spain £3.500 a year regardless. He shouldn't be asked to pay at all, except for the new 10% . They are incorrect in that lack of income details under the new Spanish law means that he pays ONLY 10% but there is no 'cap' on the amount he must pay per month as there would be if they knew his income.

[Tetley]

I am surprised she does not get any help with her rent because by filling in her details in a benefit calculator:-

£179 State Pension
£20 Private pension
£50 wages

She should be getting approx £46 a week towards her rent.

Might be a good idea for her to visit the CAB and get their advice.

Thanks for the info,il pass it on to her,she is a bit old school so wile she can work i think she is happy not to claim even if its there,but it will certainly be an option as she gets older.   :tiphat:

[carwyn99]

I am surprised she does not get any help with her rent because by filling in her details in a benefit calculator:-

£179 State Pension
£20 Private pension
£50 wages

She should be getting approx £46 a week towards her rent.

Might be a good idea for her to visit the CAB and get their advice.

[Tetley]

O and at the mo she still gets her TV  licence,bus pass,and prescription bits and mi anuti who lives in Tenerife gives her,her own winter fuel allowance coz she recons she doesent need it there.  ;D

[Tetley]

Tetley

If your mum did only have her £179 pension to live on then she would have full housing benefit and council benefit paid.

Therefore she would not be up pension creek.

mi mam gets 179 plus 20 quid private pension and she works 6 hours a week playing keyboards and earns around 50 quid - taxis

her tax allowance is 10700 pa  (over 75 )

she spends 134 a week on rent,lecky,gas,phone,insurance,water rates,council tax, not including food she has got a very small amount of savings and the 20 quid private pension takes here out of the state assistance band ie rent rates.

(but she wouldent give up her job either way to go on the bennys as she recons its better to work away than waste away )

[Louise]

Thank you for your reply.
I thought so too, Gus (we had the red prescriptions for a couple of years - always combined with the tarjeta europea - yearly renewal of the AN-number when we received the new card)
I also heard that there are lots of medicines that are on a list of non-retribution (but I doubt general wide spectrum antibiotics are amongst them).
I also know that the medicine on red papers were at zero % (green at 40%) cost and recently (1st July /2012) the 0% became 10%. But I understood that this had changed because of the government rules and taxation ideas....
Now I heard that it is because we pay our taxes AND social security in our home country (tax base) and that Spain refuses to send the bill to our country. We have to pay in advance and WE have to send it to the social in our country.

I go to the office of Huercal Overa to try and sort this out (if i´m not too ill) and will post my reply here.

But I seriously doubt if they have treated me correct at the medical center.
Or....if I am not yet in the tax system here and this system is linked to the seguridad social....they did just "deactivated" us.

I will keep you updated if there is more news that might be of interest! If someone knows already more, please let me know!

[gus-lopez]

Does anyone know or are there others who don´t get any prescriptions at all ???
After the issue with my daughter´s medicine, I just went for myself to the doctor and instead of a red prescription paper, I get them printed on a blanc paper and have to pay the full amount....
Residents here since 2005.....Socials and taxes paid in homeland.

If your husband is a pensioner then you, as his wife, are entitled to full medical care. Up here if you are the dependent & under pension age you would get green prescriptions meaning you pay 40% oft he cost. You need to make a complaint.

[carwyn99]

Tetley

If your mum did only have her £179 pension to live on then she would have full housing benefit and council benefit paid.

Therefore she would not be up pension creek.

[Louise]

Does anyone know or are there others who don´t get any prescriptions at all ???
After the issue with my daughter´s medicine, I just went for myself to the doctor and instead of a red prescription paper, I get them printed on a blanc paper and have to pay the full amount....
Residents here since 2005.....Socials and taxes paid in homeland.

[Tetley]

Yer right there Primo

mi mam gets 179 pwk pension and here rent  & out goings not inc food are 134 pwk if she didnt get another 20quid a week private pension and her part time job she would be up pension creek !

[guest4538]

To get back to the title of this thread, I emailed the Department of Health in the U.K. as I feel we pensioners, and some of us are finding the going hard, should continue to get our prescriptions free. They took the stance that the U.K. Govt. pays for us to get the same healthcare in Spain as Spanish residents, and if the Spanish have to contribute towards their prescriptions then we will have to as well. End of story.

Don't worry, UK OAPs are expected soon to lose their free prescriptions, free bus passes, free TV licenses, and winter fuel allowances!

[carwyn99]

That is the only stance any government within the EU could take.

It is total unrealistic to expect to live in Spain and get a better deal on prescriptions than the Spanish.

Under European law all european citizen receive the same treatment.

[geoffp34]

To get back to the title of this thread, I emailed the Department of Health in the U.K. as I feel we pensioners, and some of us are finding the going hard, should continue to get our prescriptions free. They took the stance that the U.K. Govt. pays for us to get the same healthcare in Spain as Spanish residents, and if the Spanish have to contribute towards their prescriptions then we will have to as well. End of story.

[guest4538]

Hi Ping
I appreciate what you are saying about the UK needing some of us ex-pats who receive a pension from the local authority purse - they are obviously very short of money (I have my thoughts on why, but that is a whole new debate!), but you seem to imply that I am getting this for free - as I said previously I paid my dues.
I now have some support from several MEPs that to allow other pensions to be transferred gross to Spain and taxed in that country, but to treat others in a different way is discriminatory. We are all EU citizens and should all be treated the same !!! It will happen - maybe not in my time, but it will happen.
Mike

Mike,

I can appreciate that some MEPs would love to redistribute UK funds across the rest of Europe! But, hey, we might not be in Europe much longer! And I don't believe that the MEPs, you refer to, would get much support from MPs, who fortunately still make most of the decisions in the UK.

I'm not implying that you get your pension for free. I'm sure you provided a valuable service, for which you were, and still are, well compensated. As it happens I'm also in receipt of a public service pension, and I am very grateful. But you should take a closer look at the economics. There are true tax payers (those in the private sector) and there are public servants. Public servants are net beneficiaries of the tax system. I know that on paper public servants pay taxes, pension contributions, and national insurance: but, in real terms, these are simply deductions to arrive at the public servants' net receipts!

It is for these reasons that I think it would be quite wrong for you, or any public servant, to receive their pension gross. It would simply result in the true UK tax payers having to pay even more for your past services!

Mike,

I meant to ask again: why would you want to pay tax on your UK public service pension in Spain? I know you gave some altruistic reasons earlier!

From other threads on the Forum, you will appreciate that public servants living in Spain have the benefit of double personal taxation allowances. Apparently, although fiscally domiciled in Spain, you are not required to declare a UK public service pension on your Spanish tax returns. Hence you receive a UK personal tax allowance on your UK public service pension; and Spain's personal tax allowance will be available for all your other income.

So bear in mind, if your favoured MEPs win your fight, most ex-pats would be furious if, as a consequence, they were to lose this extraordinarily generous benefit!

Furthermore, with the current state of the Spanish economy, tax rates in Spain are likely to rise. And tax payments, on UK sourced funds, would anyway increase as the Euro falls against the Pound (since your income effectively increases as a consequence)! 

[guest4538]

Hi Ping
I appreciate what you are saying about the UK needing some of us ex-pats who receive a pension from the local authority purse - they are obviously very short of money (I have my thoughts on why, but that is a whole new debate!), but you seem to imply that I am getting this for free - as I said previously I paid my dues.
I now have some support from several MEPs that to allow other pensions to be transferred gross to Spain and taxed in that country, but to treat others in a different way is discriminatory. We are all EU citizens and should all be treated the same !!! It will happen - maybe not in my time, but it will happen.
Mike

Mike,

I can appreciate that some MEPs would love to redistribute UK funds across the rest of Europe! But, hey, we might not be in Europe much longer! And I don't believe that the MEPs, you refer to, would get much support from MPs, who fortunately still make most of the decisions in the UK.

I'm not implying that you get your pension for free. I'm sure you provided a valuable service, for which you were, and still are, well compensated. As it happens I'm also in receipt of a public service pension, and I am very grateful. But you should take a closer look at the economics. There are true tax payers (those in the private sector) and there are public servants. Public servants are net beneficiaries of the tax system. I know that on paper public servants pay taxes, pension contributions, and national insurance: but, in real terms, these are simply deductions to arrive at the public servants' net receipts!

It is for these reasons that I think it would be quite wrong for you, or any public servant, to receive their pension gross. It would simply result in the true UK tax payers having to pay even more for your past services!