Los Llanos

[geoffp34]

How come the GC are complaining about a safety issue when all they have to do is put a camera at the site to catch all the drivers who take the pxxx every week by crossing a solid white line. The placing of a camera and the subsequent issue of €200 fines would solve the problem overnight.

[mercedes]

I think there are much bigger issues to concentrate electors collective minds on rather than a  Rastro market that couldn't be bothered to apply for a licence. As Roger posted previously - getting people's homes legal must be No.1 priority and we know whose been making progress on that issue.

[Tetley]

At the end of the day..... we have all had our say....the town hall has responded.....there is an election next May and if people arnt happy they can either stand for election or vote a diffrent party in or a new local party.

there aint a lot else realy to say,punters aint happy and car boots shut.....

jobe done   :tiphat:

[mercedes]

"I have kept quiet on this up to no but I feel that the Town Hall are being hammered for doing what should have been done many years ago."

From Phil.





Whilst the street market was operating illegally as well as the rastro they would not dare close one without the other, with the street market now being  legal, action is taken against the rastro.
The TH have a vested interest in the street market and were losing revenue to Los Llanos and the rastro.
This is why TH is taking a bit of flak.

So let's be clear. What is being said is that whilst the TH -following representations from Madrid - worked with the Street Market traders to get them legalised and during that same time period the rastro land owner did nothing to apply for a licence.: this land owner's inaction has directly lead to the closure of his market -   because he couldn't be bothered to protect his business and the welfare of HIS stall holders by applying for a licence -  the closure of the rastro is being blamed on the TH.   UNBELIEVABLE!!! -Shouldn't the Rastro owner be the butt of all this flak? After all it's HIS business His responsibility and HIS fault its closed - NO ONE ELSE!!!

Even now I suspect that if he filled in his application - spoke with ALL the authorities - he may be able to restart his business but this cannot happen without he puts pen to paper fills in his application signs it and delivers it to the TH. NO APPLICATION equals NO LICENCE - ever.

[felipe]

But if the land owner had done what he said he would do and actually applied for the license it may not have been closed.  It is him that is to blame in all of this not the town hall. They followed the rules and gave him more than enough time to get sorted out. It should be him that you need to be having a pop at.  Same applied to the town market, when they found out is was illegal they got it sorted out.  There was nothing stopping him from doing the same.

[King saint 76]

"I have kept quiet on this up to no but I feel that the Town Hall are being hammered for doing what should have been done many years ago."

From Phil.





Whilst the street market was operating illegally as well as the rastro they would not dare close one without the other, with the street market now being  legal, action is taken against the rastro.
The TH have a vested interest in the street market and were losing revenue to Los Llanos and the rastro.
This is why TH is taking a bit of flak.

[felipe]

Just a thought, if the new motorway does get finished that would take a lot of the through traffic off the Albox road.  That in turn 'should' make the road less dangerous at the junction of the two bars. 

Some people seem to have forgotten the dreadful accident involving the English vehicle that turned onto the road across the white line on market day about 3 years ago.  I cannot recall for certain but didn't someone get killed in that accident?

I have kept quiet on this up to no but I feel that the Town Hall are being hammered for doing what should have been done many years ago.  What previous administrations did cannot be used against the current one.  They have been in there for only three years, year one would have been sorting out the mess they were left in. During the second year they tried to get the owner of the rastro to apply for a license.  They then waited another year and still nothing.  So what choice did they have but to shut it down on the instructions from the Guardia and Madrid. In my book all above board. 

Yes, it is great shame that it has been closed but surely it is the land owner that should be blamed for not getting the license sorted out? No one seems to pointing the finger at him, why? Had he got the license sorted out a year ago then it would still be open now.

One of the major reasons for the closure by the Guardia is road safety.  How many times have any of us stood there and watched drivers of all nationalities drive out from the boot sale side across the white line to Albox nearly causing an accident?  The white line is there for a reason ROAD SAFETY. Yet people ignore it and put other people's lives at risk in doing so.

[Tetley]

4 lights and a pedestrian crossing,plus a camra would have sorted the traffic.......wich should have ben done years ago and still needs doing  with or without the car boot been there ,there are still 2 bars there and the road has been a death trap for years,its only the road works in Arboleas thats slowed the road down,befor that it was a race track.

morning citizens   :tiphat:

[olly]

Well let's get it opened up again then, and tough luck to the next poor victim, as long as we all have somewhere to go on Saturdays.
Maybe we should raise a petition?
You find me one person who can honestly say this section of road is not a nightmare to drive past on Saturdays.
I cannot believe anyone can be so selfish as to put their leisure time/money before someone's life.

[King saint 76]

Totally agree Olly, but the next fatality could be anywhere under any circumstances.
My point was that the statistics for accidents are very low at the rastro considering the amount of people that cross at this particular point.
Claiming that it is  death spot is well wide of the mark, but the TH will probably use this to deny any application.
IMHO

[bigbaz]

yeah, 12 yrs

[olly]

So because it's the same the world over we should ignore the fact?
Would you feel the same if it was one of your family that was killed?
If the T.H. are looking at an alternative site which is safer, then shouldn't we be applauding them for it?
I, for one, am glad it was closed down, as it was only a matter of time before the next fatality.

[King saint 76]

12 years, one fatality.   Yes one death, one death too many agreed, but is it much different from any other part of the world.  This will probably stop the licence being approved.

[olly]

Well with replies like that, you either have no concience, or no children/grandchildren.
Shame on you.

[bigbaz]

12 yrs its been dangerous, not 12 wks

i smell a rat

[byrney]

"The Guardia Traffico are so worried about how dangerous the crossing of that road is...."

The current dangerous situation could have been readily made less dangerous (had the GC wanted to) by some simple traffic control measures.  That clearly would not be in their interests though.

As for a "dangerous" road situation have you ever been to the Nou Camp in Barcelona on match days?  Surprised the GC haven't closed that down as well....

[King saint 76]

He also thought it amusing that  a lady was reporting that her mail had gone missing and that a pile  of mail had been found in a field. 

Hardly a responsible attitude for a king or a saint

If you had bothered to read that particular thread properly, you might have understood the message....  then again....

[King saint 76]

I fully agree with you Claire, the King or saint whatever he is, seems to be getting very upset at what many peole on this forum think is a small matter of closing an illegal boot fair compared to all the other more important issues of living here with the threat of demolitions, illegal houses etc. etc. 

Jimbo, your post does not even merit a reply from me, read some of the previous post and then join the debate when you are fully informed.

[King saint 76]

Is it not time you abdicated saint? You used to post some good things on the forum but since you have been back all you have doe is throw ridicule at the ARBOLEAS TH. How many more times do you have to be told that the owner of the rastro INFORMED THE TOWN HALL THAT HE WAS GOING TO APPLY FOR A LICENSE BUT AFTER 12 MONTHS HE STILL HAD NOT DONE SO.
It is hardly being underhand by the TH is it, when they have said enough is enough and called time on the ILLEGAL boot sale.

Claire 32, you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
I am not a real king.
The street market in Arboleas was illegal for many years, did TH ever try to close this down.. no is the answer.  
Claire, even you can see that something underhand has gone on, surely you can see through all this.
The Arboleas council should be questioned on this, they have acted disgracefully, but you support what they have done.
The feeling of the people around here is of anger, not just on this forum but everywhere, not just of the closure, but of the way it happened.
THIS AFFECTS MORE THAN THE RESIDENTS OF ARBOLEAS.....  

[olly]

Personally I think I would rather lose a living, if, as they say the Guardia Traffico are so worried about how dangerous the crossing of that road is, inevitably it will lead to someone losing their life.
I think everyone knows just how dangerous it is.
As far as I can see it makes sense, if the T.H. are trying to move it to a safer place, and if the money goes into their coffers, don't you think all the locals will benefit?

[webejamin]

bigbaz has a valid point in that many of the "local residents" are English and are entitled to work and earn a living in Spain, They should also have a right to a say in how things are run.
I don't think Roger will get too phased by any critics, he's a politician and knows the saying about "pleasing all the people all the time"

Hogs makes a good point re dissenters.

The overriding economical problems in Spain will be resolved when the property problems are put to rest, Roger seems to be tackling the major problems first and doing well. All the other gripes will fix themselves when the property issues are sorted. ya just gotta be patient  :tiphat:   

[Woden]

It's easily solved peeps all those in dissent can stand for Council next election and do things their way if they get elected, bet there ain't many takers!

Hogs :tiphat:

[bigbaz]

NormanM

"When, oh, when will people realize that twon markets here in Spain are for the benifit of local residents, many of whom do not have cars and live in areas wherte ther is no public transport.  They are not there so that immigrants - including British ones - can make a living!"

the whole point of the EU is so you can earn a living in other countries
Brits have every right to earn what they can where they can like all other nationalities

stop sucking up to the spanish

[jimbo]

I fully agree with you Claire, the King or saint whatever he is, seems to be getting very upset at what many peole on this forum think is a small matter of closing an illegal boot fair compared to all the other more important issues of living here with the threat of demolitions, illegal houses etc. etc. 

[Crystal2]

He also thought it amusing that  a lady was reporting that her mail had gone missing and that a pile  of mail had been found in a field. 

Hardly a responsible attitude for a king or a saint

[claire23]

Is it not time you abdicated saint? You used to post some good things on the forum but since you have been back all you have doe is throw ridicule at the ARBOLEAS TH. How many more times do you have to be told that the owner of the rastro INFORMED THE TOWN HALL THAT HE WAS GOING TO APPLY FOR A LICENSE BUT AFTER 12 MONTHS HE STILL HAD NOT DONE SO.
It is hardly being underhand by the TH is it, when they have said enough is enough and called time on the ILLEGAL boot sale.

[King saint 76]

As mentioned before, it's not just about the rastro closing, but the underhand way it was done, without any consultation and immediately after the street market gains legal status.
Of course it is not nearly as important as legalising properties, talk about stating the bleeding obvious!!!!! :head    because it is not as important should we not be discussing it?
Should we let the TH just do whatever they want to suit themselves?

[Crystal2]

Ditto

[zilnor]

......."Now they have taken away the only enjoyment we have......."   Oh dear, how dull your life must be if markets are your only enjoyment in life. 
I have to agree with Roger that legalising houses, and getting people connected to water and electricity are far more important issues  than a market/rastro.  :wave

[mickandjan]

From NormanM......  ""  If your only enjoyment was  going to a rastro, I'm sorry for you ""  aimed at Pepe.




Norman please point out where Pepe said this. (that's right he didn't)     Stop making things up, it does nothing for this debate.

How can Local Government be the same as the U k 1, they would not of got away with Corruption  2 how many illegal homes are there in the U K 3 who in the U K would let a illegal market trade for six years then say it has not got a Licence . Normal Practice in the U k is to call a meeting with the traders and give them reasons and notice why you are closing the Market . We are not talking about what Homes you are trying to make Legal we should of never been robbed by Local Government in the first place this would not happen in the U K either . 90% of Brits brought there property in good faith and as legal then to be told they are not and could be demolished there life savings gone overnight and they have to spend more money to legalise what should of been legal in the first place this would not happen in the U K either . Now you have taken away the only enjoyment we have at the stroke of a pen this would not happen in the U K either without prior warning . So how can you say Local Governments are the same I think that is a insult to all the Expats in Spain our Local Government are run to a strict regime . I think I have made my Point . Roger I am not knocking the good work you are doing but I think your Town hall should of shown more Dignity to the market traders not treated them like cattle in a field .

[Tutty]

Great post nibbler, I think Roger needs to be in touch with the real world if hes wondering why people are getting worked up about just a rastro !! . Also I may have missed it somewhere, but does the town hall have any connections with the now legal market?. :handshake

[jg]

Hear hear Nibbler,

Unfortunately Arboleas council seems to be somewhat out of touch with what else is happening in the area,
Apart from the probs with housing.

[webejamin]

Pepe -no corruption in UK Local Government?  When I was an Environmental Health Officer, one of my colleagues had a nice little earner warning shops and restauarants when we were due to make a visit.  Another was offered a nice litle 20 grand bung for making a contract go the right way - he refused though.  And that is just at a very lowly level.  No one was "robbed of" homes by Local Government here, although they did have a part in it, and now LG in Arboleas is putting it right, unlike in other municipalities in the area.

If your only enjoyment was  going to a rastro, I'm sorry for you, and finally if you knowingly trade on an illegal site, and it all goes wrong, what do you expect?

As far as I am concerned, it was an eysore and a danger, nothing more.

When, oh, when will people realize that twon markets here in Spain are for the benifit of local residents, many of whom do not have cars and live in areas wherte ther is no public transport.  They are not there so that immigrants - including British ones - can make a living!

Norm, it doesn't sound very corrupt to me. What did you do about your dodgy mate doing the warning? and your other mate was a good example of how things should be run if he knocked back a bung. Not very good examples of a corrupt UK.
Yes corruption goes on in all countries to some degree, but Spain in general takes the cake :tiphat:

[King saint 76]

From NormanM......  ""  If your only enjoyment was  going to a rastro, I'm sorry for you ""  aimed at Pepe.




Norman please point out where Pepe said this. (that's right he didn't)     Stop making things up, it does nothing for this debate.

[nibbler]

When I first started going to the car boot years ago it was much smaller and 80% British who were selling off their unwanted items.
Over the years it's grown, mainly I would say because of the CRISIS. As a result there are many more Spanish there who have no other way of providing food for the family.
A few months ago I had a good clear out and offered a load of stuff free to anyone who would collect.
A Spanish family came. While we were loading I said I was surprised that they and not a British they replied that the husband had lost his job and had no other way of feeding his family. This is the case with many other families.
They were so grateful. That weekend they were at the Rastro, the whole family and they were so pleased. They insisted I had a drink.
Now the Rastro is 70% Spanish 25% Moroccan 5% British to those who have asked why the Rastro is so important I think this is your answer.