house being knocked down

[gus-lopez]

I seem to recall he lives up Baza way where the GC are very polite & say please & thank you like here !   :lol:

[Karen4]

Bradford?

[bobthelook]

I decided that living in an area where there are few brits, an area where they are desperate for your money, an area where they will bend over backwards to accomadate the brits was the area for me. Possibly, but for sure, I didn't take a gamble in investing all my hard earned, I chose to invest in an area where the Spanish want us.

And sad to say, the Spanish don't want the brits down your way.

Mm - - - so where exactly do you live ?   ???

[byrney]

Exactly LisaJ, that's precisely the bigoted misinformation and lies peddled by some people on here that I've been talking about.

[lisa j]

Three Blind Mice

Your opinions certainly don´t upset me and of course everyone has a right to post their opinion.

However to imply that people who have illegality problems have them because they didn´t engage their brain´s, as you put it, when they arrived here is, frankly, very offensive. Are you ¨Doris Stokes¨, as you put it, to know the cause of these peoples problem???

And, just for your information, your statement that the Spanish úp here´, (your words), don´t want us here - I couldn´t disagree more - most of our Spanish friends and neighbours are as disgusted by their Junta´s actions as we are and have no problems with ´Brits ¨at all!!

And I´m not entirely sure I´m missing anything by not knowing you either ............but that´s only my opinion!

:tiphat: :lol:

Lisa J

[Three Blind Mice]

Big Baz
LisaJ
Nibbler
Glenholt

So you don't want me posting my opinions, do they upset you, diddums.

Fine, your choice, just as it is mine to post here, as long as I stick to the rules, and I will post if I feel like it, unless the owners tell me otherwise.

You think I was being smug, I don't, sensible, smart, studious to think of a few things, but not smug.

I spent many months deciding where to buy a spread, the fact I decided not to buy somewhere where there was a possibility of purchasing an illegal build, doesn't make me smug imo, quite the opposite in fact.

It's a blog, a place where people voice their opinions, a place where opinions should be aired without the snyde remarks, a place where differing opinions make for a good blog.

And to say you know lots of people like me, deaire me,  what a presumptuous statement to make, Doris Stokes watch out, you don't have a clue about me, who or what I am, you know nothing about me, and I can say with my hand on my heart, you never will.

To others who decided not to respond.

If I came over in my original post as arrogant and smug, I apologise, it wasn't intended that way  :tiphat:

Take care and god bless.

[OneFlewOverTheCuckoosNest]

So sad to read this thread. Some sound, level headed comments on here, I cant comprehend the Authorities lack of moral courage to not penalise genuine victims of miss selling, especially when purchased with signed off paperworks where the Town Halls have been shown to be corrupt in doing so. And some angry posts, rightly and understandably so.

[nibbler]

Thanks Gus, I knew someone had the answer. :clap:
Nibbler :tiphat:

[webejamin]

Great post gus, can't help feeling a certain amount of evil creeping into all this, seems it's all over Spain. I've just had news of someone else I know, desperate to get out but can't sell up, and that's in Murcia.

[gus-lopez]

I would be interested to know how many, if any, Spanish homes have been demolished over the years due to illegal builds. ???
Nibbler :tiphat:

Quite a few actually. The main one I remember was a Traffic warden in Mallorca that owned a house on the beach which her great-great, grandfather had built back in 1920 . Under the 'Ley de la Costas' she was  told to demolish it & after numerous appeals the council did & gave her the demolition bill of some 300k.

http://perjudicadosporlaleydecostas.blogspot.com.es/2013/10/el-rostro-de-la-ley-de-costas-pablo.html
The above is an organisation that is opposed to the way the 'Ley de la costas' is being enacted.

I know that the 'Ley de la Costas ' is slightly different to this subject but it does affect foreigners as well , as many have "bought" a house in Andalucia only to find that they haven't ; they just bought the "right " to live there until they die/or 60 years & then it will be demolished.
Spaniards are affected all over by illegal builds/no builds/ley de la costa, etc; including up in the north where they have a similar organisation to AUAN..
Here;

http://inocentesdecantabria.galeon.com/
I read a report some while back of a small village where 20/30 spaniards all put down deposits, some up to 80k, to purchase in there own village, newly built houses that never appeared & neither did the return of  any money !!
Earlier in the year I watched on España Directo, a whole spanish fishing village being demolished up in the north.

Until the recent amendments to the 'Ley de la Costas' , one of the only beach villages in Lorca ,all spanish owned,was under threat of total demolition , even though it had existed for 100's of years  !  Even with council backing they couldn't get it overturned !

How can you have a law that can be applied retrospectively ?
Under the law ,theoretically La Manga & the Mar Menor would have to be completely bulldozed.
What I find really disturbing about this law is that for years now government inspectors have been quietly assessing ALL the coastlines , making reports of those which are deemed illegal &  then any demolition orders in any area are ALWAYS  enforced on the ones who would appear to be the least able to defend themselves. They've never attempted to take on any national or multi-national companies that have bottomless  pits of money.
You can actually see the latest updated map , showing the areas of coastline that the inspectors have already furtively assessed , which is from the French border to Alicante & all the Balearics.



http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj8dmr_derribos-casitas-pescadores-de-el-puig_news

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcN8RGErbXg#t=36

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebmFKphjQ80#t=11

The list is endless.

All these organisations would do well to join up & present a united front.

[webejamin]

Strange old world isn't ??? I wonder how many houses have to be knocked down, or how many innocent people have to lose everything, for it all to be seen as a catastrophe? Can it be classed as "just a few" or "not many so far" "only a small percentage?" I think one is enough.
The writings on the wall people, your house may be safe from demolition, but what's it worth? can you sell it? I know people who can't give em away.
Nothing funny about this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycCR0XEBHGA

[nibbler]

I would be interested to know how many, if any, Spanish homes have been demolished over the years due to illegal builds. ???
Nibbler :tiphat:

[lisa j]

Tetley, unfortunately until MORE people have their houses demolished and lose everything they worked for throughout their lives, many people will simply shrug their shoulders, say what the heck its not affecting me and carry on (Spanish  AND English people I think). I think its the Ím alright Jack, mentality - but surely EVERY person who believes in a fair and just legal system should be up in arms over this! I can´t imagine what people like the Priors and now these latest victims go through.
The sad thing is, I think that the worst may be yet to come and many more will suffer at the Junta´s hands, not only expats either!
I think it will be only then that the majority will sit up and take notice and stop burying their heads in the sand or thinking it can´t happen to me!
Of course for the lucky few who happen to have bought in Arboleas, and are fortunate enough to have an uncorrupt Town Hall, apparently life is rosy , but for the rest of the valley and other areas of Andalucia, well, we´ll wait and see ....and hope.
I really hope the Auan, who do a fantastic job, get the support they deserve and more of us join.
It may seem to be doom and gloom but for those who are, and still may be affected by this, it must be hard to just ádapt and overcome´, Sparkie Mike!
Lisa j

[rt21]

There is an old saying in the book called the "art of war"

"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles."

It is something that is as true today as it was thousands of years ago.


On that note I am going to leave you and open a bottle of wine.


Richard

[Tetley]

At the end of the day,im not looking at it from an ex pats point of veiw,im not realy intrested in been a uk citz,sp citz,ot timbook2 citz,what im looking at is Basic econamics ,ie  bread on plates and folks keeping what they have worked for.

im just hopeing the Roger Done in Arboleas and the AUAN ,s wider challange turns out posative.


so i shall wish you all a pleasant evening and carry on soldering   :tiphat:

[rt21]

Steve

In my opinion Keysore is mostly right in what he says.

As I have mentioned in another post the Junta look at demolitions in a completely different way to expats. They would say that they are doing nothing different to what the UK authorities would do if they found a house that transgressed the rules. And that if innocent parties have been duped then they should take appropriate action through the courts against those parties. Where I do think they are completely wrong is in cases like the Priors where a local authority has issued a building licence that has given the impression to the innocent buyer that such a purchase is legal.

However, there are things that can be done to fight the demolitions and joining the AUAN is one of them.

Richard

[sparkiemike]

 :wave

In our region how many houses have actually been demolished?

I know it doesn't help if it yours but it's a very small percentage of expat ownership.

Mike

:tiphat:

[Tetley]

Tetley

regrettably, I think you vastly over estimate the impact the latest demolition and those of the past years has on the Spanish economy. The latest demolition is very much yesterdays news. The sad and regrettable truth is that most people do not give a damn. Even amongst houseowners in the affected region, membership to campaigning organisations such as AUAN is woefully low.

The Spanish economy is showing signs of recovery, tourism is up at record levels, exports getting stronger but the personal debt and unemployment continues to be monstrously high. So whilst the countries debts may be satisfied , personal spending power will remain in the doldrums

I suspect the Spanish economy to bumble along on a base rate for many , many years

So what do you suggest then,every body just lays down and gets bulldozed as well as the houses   because its yesterdays news , and Spains in recovery with a bust banking system,bank balance sheets over stocked with millions of euros worth of over priced spent assetts and youth un employment at 50 / 60 %  what a load of  ollocks.....

:tiphat:

[keyser soze]

Tetley

regrettably, I think you vastly over estimate the impact the latest demolition and those of the past years has on the Spanish economy. The latest demolition is very much yesterdays news. The sad and regrettable truth is that most people do not give a damn. Even amongst houseowners in the affected region, membership to campaigning organisations such as AUAN is woefully low.

The Spanish economy is showing signs of recovery, tourism is up at record levels, exports getting stronger but the personal debt and unemployment continues to be monstrously high. So whilst the countries debts may be satisfied , personal spending power will remain in the doldrums

I suspect the Spanish economy to bumble along on a base rate for many , many years

[Tetley]

:wave

Vigilance

We now know the pitfalls, we should disseminate our knowledge amongst the masses.

Mike

:tiphat:

i suggest everybody stops wee ing around and helps fund the AUAN  thay cant spend words but they can fund legal, to help prevent this again with Euros,wich is what it will come down to.    :tiphat:

[sparkiemike]

 :wave

Vigilance

We now know the pitfalls, we should disseminate our knowledge amongst the masses.

Mike

:tiphat:

[Tetley]

So what do you suggest to make sure it dosent happen Again  ?

:tiphat:

[sparkiemike]

 :wave

All this hot air.

Just accept the hand we've been dealt & make the most of it.

Adapt & overcome.

What's in the past can't be overturned just make sure it don't happen again.

All this regurgitating of the past is just torture.

:head :head :head

Mike

:tiphat:

[Tetley]

I dont think realy that anybody can grasp it all,ie the sheer life devastation until they talked to the people concearnd and or visit a site were a house / home/ life times work once stood ,i dont think its a question of folks sat on the forum naughty step ,but we must all be aware that if people like Roger Done and the AUAN  fail,then given this past weeks events,its only going one way.ie  state econamic madness for all the world to veiw .

:tiphat:

[rt21]

:notopic: :notopic: :notopic: :notopic: Not looked at this thread for a couple of days, as usual its turned a serious subject into a JOKE, some of you need to grow up, if youve got nowt to say thats serious...for gods sake find another post to pull to pieces......or sobber up before you post!!!

Maybe you see it as a joke, but most will see any humour on this subject and thread as irony :tiphat:

Webe

On reflection although our posts were intended to lighten up a very serious thread they were probably inappropriate given that someone had just lost their house.

However, Jim's outburst was neither measured nor thoughtful and I am sure if he read it again he would understand that some may just see it as a rant.

Richard

[webejamin]

I hope the "keep it quiet brigade" are reading the latest news :tiphat:

[rt21]

Forewarned maybe forearmed but because of the rife corruption, plus lack of employment in Spain, ...WHO can you trust?

If I were contemplating relocating anywhere in Spain now...my answer would be no-one.

Until the J of A or the Spanish Government take responsibility for the problems and recompense those conned then Southern Spain is going to become a landmass of derelict ruins in the future because only the loaded risk takers will want to buy here...and even then at sub rock prices.

If I was buying a property again I would use the same lawyer that I used for my purchase in 2007 and also an architect in Velez Rubio, who I found very helpful in terms of establishing the legality of my property He wrote to offices in Almeria obtaining written confirmation that the land and house were legal and built in accordance with the planning laws.

However, if I was new to the area I wouldn't trust many in terms of advice about a property and certainly not anyone connected to an agent or if they still exist a developer.

Those thinking about buying a property in Arboleas would have the advantage of having an honest person in Roger at the Town Hall, who I am sure would give impartial advice. However, I know that Arboleas is not everyone's  cup of tea.

Richard

[webejamin]

I'm a pacifist, but I do wonder that some of these people are still around, having robbed so many, of so much and caused such heartache :tiphat:

[fidgetmidget]

For what its worth, I think it could happen again, houses being sold to innocent victims having been built illegally.  Soon as the foot comes off the pedal things begin to improve, house sales become more consistent, the greed will surface again and the same people who have been to court, had their legs slapped and been told to pay up and haven't, will jump back on the wagon and start all over again.  

If they were all dealt with properly from the promoter, builder, abogado, notary, estate agents and anyone else involved and all summonsed to appear in court together for each abuse case and then all sentenced and had to actually do jail time, which increased with each case (three strikes and your out) then it might make a difference.  

The courts should also allow the victims to employ a "sheriff" type outfit to take goods to the value of from these bankrupt thieves if only to recover some of the money stolen from them. Bank accounts should be frozen and additional assets as well.  if the courts are not going to make life hard for these people when they have been found guilty in no uncertain terms, then they will continue to do what they do best and make a good living out of scamming foreign and indeed Spanish buyers.

Our builder has been to court too many times to count and has been found guilty on every occasion, yet he wanders round town, nodding his head at you and smiling at you like he is a model citizen and believing he has done nothing wrong and he will continue to unless one of those judges looks at his track record for appearances and says hang on a minute, you here again, put him away this time till he learns his lesson.

Midge

[webejamin]

:notopic: :notopic: :notopic: :notopic: Not looked at this thread for a couple of days, as usual its turned a serious subject into a JOKE, some of you need to grow up, if youve got nowt to say thats serious...for gods sake find another post to pull to pieces......or sobber up before you post!!!

Maybe you see it as a joke, but most will see any humour on this subject and thread as irony :tiphat:

[sparkiemike]

Forewarned maybe forearmed but because of the rife corruption, plus lack of employment in Spain, ...WHO can you trust?

If I were contemplating relocating anywhere in Spain now...my answer would be no-one.

Until the J of A or the Spanish Government take responsibility for the problems and recompense those conned then Southern Spain is going to become a landmass of derelict ruins in the future because only the loaded risk takers will want to buy here...and even then at sub rock prices.

:tiphat:

We'll agree to disagree

Mike

:tiphat:

[JessicaH]

Forewarned maybe forearmed but because of the rife corruption, plus lack of employment in Spain, ...WHO can you trust?

If I were contemplating relocating anywhere in Spain now...my answer would be no-one.

Until the J of A or the Spanish Government take responsibility for the problems and recompense those conned then Southern Spain is going to become a landmass of derelict ruins in the future because only the loaded risk takers will want to buy here...and even then at sub rock prices.

[sparkiemike]

 :wave

Forewarned is forearmed

Hopefully by the misfortune of others people considering buying in our area will be vigilant as to the possible pitfalls.

With all the publicity I don't think all of this could happen to the same degree again.

People now know how to deal with the legal system, the town halls, the utility companies who all in turn have become more accountable.

On the other hand & it's not highlighted enough that there are many many people who have purchased
in out area & their dream has been realised with little or no problems at all.

Mike

:tiphat:

[lisa j]

Couldn´t agree more Baz
Unfortunately there are still some smug, opinionated t..ts about who like to act like they know everything and love to tell everyone about it!. Give it a rest Three Blind Mice - and if the Forum offends you - don´t look at it, simple! We won´t miss you!
Lisa J :tiphat:

[bigbaz]

it just makes me laugh that people come on here making out how clever they are
i bought an old cortijo which was legal, only luck, i didnt know back then in 2003, then it turned out all the land i had bought
with it werent officially mine, i was conned, so were these people, they bought in 2005
apparently the house had a demolition order on it when they bought it
this is total fraud, this is nothing to do with "the way they do things in spain"
spectrum put a bit about it on farcebook, all the comments about how stupid these people were
they werent, they trusted the officials that dealt with it, that were paid to deal with it
three blind mice, i met loads of people like u when i lived there
the "i only drink in spanish bars" brigade
i bet u dont speak a word of spanish apart from tubo and si
these people have lost 170,000 quid, its a disgrace
they dont need a **** like u giving it the bigun