UK MOT

[Lisasbolt]

They were not meant to be staying this long, they are doing up a villa they have recently bought and it is taking longer than expected. I think it is only out for a week or so, so i'll advise just not to drive in that week and contact insurance company.
Pretty sure they are planning on going back via santander, i will tell them to get a MOT in porstmoth or plymouth.

I know they have messed up, but i bet there most of you have gone to re do your MOT and found out it is out of date, i have once and i was a month out!!!

[ramblarider]

That's pretty much the same with cops everywhere.... they're always right, you're always wrong...

Even if they shoot you dead when mistaking a chair leg you are taking for repair for a sawn-off shotgun, or if they mistake a blind man's white stick for a samurai sword and taser them half to death.

[nibbler]

R/R there's no doubt that the French know the rule book. It's their interpretation that causes the problems.
Nibbler :tiphat:

[Tetley]

Just out on intrest ,a few years back when Brit plate driving was been panned,i got some info from the Alacanti police,they reconed,they couldent nick yer for no uk road tax or uk mot because it was out of there durustiction,however what they did do,is tell yer to plate up,if yer never had yer full paperwork as it was an import tax offence, and the lack of complet uk paperwork was proof to them that the motor had been used in spain for more than the 6 months wich is why they impound.

ive also heard of brit plate holiday home owners,been classed as resident  by the G even tho they arnt,because they have an nie & padron and told to plate up.........

Morning citizens

:tiphat:

[ramblarider]

One difference.. the French cops are normally well trained and usually know the rule book rather well, as opposed to the bunch down here who are often totally clueless, make-it-up-as-they-go, or both at the same time.

[gus-lopez]

So, why not book the car in for a mot in the UK.
Get the garage to send confermation of the appointment.
Drive from Spain to the garage in the UK .
Simples.
Don't drive around in Spain in the meantime

Because that only applies in the UK. If you read the previous posts EU law requires that the vehicle is legal In its country of registration , To be legal when driven in other EU countries. Without the MOT it , whilst an offence in the UK which doesn't make the insurance void , under EU rules it could outside the UK, 6 as PF pointed out Spanish insurers offering UK policies specifically state that no mot , tax renders the insurance void.

As Nibbler says ,in Spain probably ok. A traipse through France is completely different.

[cougar]

So, why not book the car in for a mot in the UK.
Get the garage to send confermation of the appointment.
Drive from Spain to the garage in the UK .
Simples.
Don't drive around in Spain in the meantime

[nibbler]

Lisa, it would be interesting to know how your friends are returning to UK. If they are going via Bilboa then they only have the Spanish Police to worry about.  However if they are going to drive through France then that's a whole new ballgame as the French are a law unto themselves. :tiphat:
Nibbler

[Tetley]

Yes its times like this,when i can see were my savings are going.... ;D

spot on RR GL

[byrney]

Thanks RR/Gus - it's nice to get chapter and verse and certainly now clarifies things in my mind about whether it is necessary to have an MOT to maintain insurance validity.

You retain your 99% record RR!  ;)

[ramblarider]

The insurance requirement, on a UK based vehicle, is for it to be " roadworthy" not that it must have an mot.

The policy quoted by PF is a Uk insured ,Spanish based policy & has that in it as EU law requires a vehicle to be legal in its own country. It is a 'get-out' for them as a UK policy cannot  do that.
Vehicles that are Sorn'd in the UK can still be/remain, insured & more often than not have no MoT either.

Absolutely correct.

[ramblarider]

Good job I am not a "bar stool lawyer", then...

However, the fact remains you are wrong.

There have been several cases regarding this and the situation is perfectly clear.

See section 148 of the RTA 1988:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/148

Subsection 2 (b)

This section explicitly deals with insurance policy terms attempting to restrict or withdraw coverage.

A mere lack of MOT (because of failure to remember, failure to attend on time or some other reason) is not capable of rendering the insurance void by itself - no matter what a specific clause in a particular policy says. Those clauses are subject to superior law, and that is quite clear. Mere lack of an MOT does not, and cannot. If the vehicle is roadworthy (this has a specific meaning - it means not dangerous) and insurance is in place, it is valid. This why you can legally drive to an MOT testing station with an expired MOT.

It is also why you can be prosecuted with an MOT if it the vehicle has serious faults. The MOT merely certifies it met the minimum standards on one particular day. It does not warranty it will still be safe next week, or in 6 months.

It is also a fact that a car can fail an MOT but still be legally "roadworthy". Many minor faults that can cause a fail do not affect safety or impinge on 'actual' road-worthiness. You can still be prosecuted under the RTA for driving a vehicle with an expired MOT, unless it is direct to a pre-booked test.

Road-worthiness is judged on a case-by-case basis.

It is also a fact that insurance is still held to be in place, even if obtained using misrepresentation. The whole idea is to protect third parties injured in accidents, even if the driver lied to get insurance, or even if the vehicle was not roadworthy. This is the underlying principle of the whole thing.  

[doreen1]

Lisa, surely your friends knew that their car would run out of MOT when they decided to stay another month?  It also seems that they are already driving around without MOT (a certificate of roadworthiness!).

RR, I would never wish to disagree with you because you are normally 99% spot on with your interpretation of the Law.

However.  Doesn't UK car insurance require vehicles to be legal as a condition of the insurance?

If it does not have an MOT then surely it is illegal, and, hence the insurance invalid which would then make the driver in an even worse position because he would be driving a car without MOT and without valid insurance?

Of course, everyone worries about "being caught" and fined etc etc, but my worry is what happens if you run someone over and kill them?  As well as blighting another family's life, you are also ruining your own (by a tasty stretch in prison) and that of your loved ones.

Please think twice before jumping into an illegal car, then think again, and then don't do it.

The insurance requirement, on a UK based vehicle, is for it to be " roadworthy" not that it must have an mot.

The policy quoted by PF is a Uk insured ,Spanish based policy & has that in it as EU law requires a vehicle to be legal in its own country. It is a 'get-out' for them as a UK policy cannot  do that.
Vehicles that are Sorn'd in the UK can still be/remain, insured & more often than not have no MoT either.

Surely though a car on SORN is a car that is not on the road. So it wouldn't matter if they are taxed insured or MOT'd, they cannot be legally driven....or am I being thick...sorry if I am. :wave

[byrney]

"If it was the law , why is it that people prosecuted for having no MoT aren't also done for the offence of 'no insurance' - Good question Gus, and one which one of our ex-boys in blue might tell us why?

Maybe it's because lack of MOT is dealt with via a fixed penalty notice, whereas driving without insurance is a more serious matter to be dealt with through the Courts and, as such, the police can't be bothered taking a prosecution as they know that the weak-willed Courts will do nothing but give a slapped wrist?  Just supposition.

And if you have no MOT, isn't this a "material fact" which you are supposed to report to your insurance company anyway, or risk your insurance being invalidated?

[gus-lopez]

Lisa, surely your friends knew that their car would run out of MOT when they decided to stay another month?  It also seems that they are already driving around without MOT (a certificate of roadworthiness!).

RR, I would never wish to disagree with you because you are normally 99% spot on with your interpretation of the Law.

However.  Doesn't UK car insurance require vehicles to be legal as a condition of the insurance?

If it does not have an MOT then surely it is illegal, and, hence the insurance invalid which would then make the driver in an even worse position because he would be driving a car without MOT and without valid insurance?

Of course, everyone worries about "being caught" and fined etc etc, but my worry is what happens if you run someone over and kill them?  As well as blighting another family's life, you are also ruining your own (by a tasty stretch in prison) and that of your loved ones.

Please think twice before jumping into an illegal car, then think again, and then don't do it.

The insurance requirement, on a UK based vehicle, is for it to be " roadworthy" not that it must have an mot.

The policy quoted by PF is a Uk insured ,Spanish based policy & has that in it as EU law requires a vehicle to be legal in its own country. It is a 'get-out' for them as a UK policy cannot  do that.
Vehicles that are Sorn'd in the UK can still be/remain, insured & more often than not have no MoT either.

[gus-lopez]

Lloyds of London who underwrite the insurance policy here in Spain clearly state in Section 5 para 2 of their policy that all cars must have a MOT  and road fund disc valid in order for the policy to be valid.
How do I know this, I lived in Murcia in camposol and was hit by an UK plated vehicle, did not have either and this was the act I received from my insurance company via his. I lost no claims, paid out for vehicle access and hire car. To cut the story short I went to the Police showed them the letter, within two weeks I received €1100 from the driver to cover my losses and also his vehicle was impounded, he was waiting to go to court when I left.
I now use Numbers 5 and 2 on my lottery.
Bar stool lawyers on here will get someone in trouble with their staements

That's a requirement of their policy . Not the law.
If it was the law , why is it that people prosecuted for having no MoT aren't also done for the offence of 'no insurance'.?

Here From the police.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q600.htm

Nothing about prosecuted for no insurance , just the opposite in fact.

" if you are driving your vehicle to and from a pre-arranged appointment for an MOT and you must take a direct route to the garage (but the vehicle must be insured)."

The only time you can have No insurance is if you are banned from driving. The lack of tax , which is a dvla offence anyway & the police report you to them for prosecution , Or MoT is not relevant.


Insurers cannot prejudice a policyholder for not having a valid MOT certificate, nor for not having a valid tax disc on their vehicle, at the time of an accident.

In the event of a claim they can make a deduction, but not if you can prove there was an oversight on your behalf, or that the vehicle was serviced regularly and would have passed an MOT.

[byrney]

Lisa, surely your friends knew that their car would run out of MOT when they decided to stay another month?  It also seems that they are already driving around without MOT (a certificate of roadworthiness!).

RR, I would never wish to disagree with you because you are normally 99% spot on with your interpretation of the Law.

However.  Doesn't UK car insurance require vehicles to be legal as a condition of the insurance?

If it does not have an MOT then surely it is illegal, and, hence the insurance invalid which would then make the driver in an even worse position because he would be driving a car without MOT and without valid insurance?

Of course, everyone worries about "being caught" and fined etc etc, but my worry is what happens if you run someone over and kill them?  As well as blighting another family's life, you are also ruining your own (by a tasty stretch in prison) and that of your loved ones.

Please think twice before jumping into an illegal car, then think again, and then don't do it.

[phileas fogg]

Lloyds of London who underwrite the insurance policy here in Spain clearly state in Section 5 para 2 of their policy that all cars must have a MOT  and road fund disc valid in order for the policy to be valid.
How do I know this, I lived in Murcia in camposol and was hit by an UK plated vehicle, did not have either and this was the act I received from my insurance company via his. I lost no claims, paid out for vehicle access and hire car. To cut the story short I went to the Police showed them the letter, within two weeks I received €1100 from the driver to cover my losses and also his vehicle was impounded, he was waiting to go to court when I left.
I now use Numbers 5 and 2 on my lottery.
Bar stool lawyers on here will get someone in trouble with their staements

[Lisasbolt]

thank you all, i will pass on all the info

[nibbler]

It's not very often I disagree with R/R but I would urge your friends to contact their insurance company first and get it in writing that you will be covered. Insurance companies are notorious for cancelling policies under these circumstances especially if an accident is involved.
Best of luck Nibbler :tiphat:

[ColinC]

We have some friends that have been here for a few months and are planning on going home soon but their trip was extended by a extra month.
This means their UK car's MOT will be out of date, which means their insurance is invalid and it would be illegal for them to drive around. Is there anywhere that does the proper UK MOT? Road tax is not a problem as that lasts another 4 months.

Thanks in advance

Lisa

i would get a volentery ITV  at lorca on the car,this will confirm the road worthy ness,i would then check with the insures ,tell them the car has a cert of road worthyness but is been driven back to a uk mot station see what they say.

at the worst a transporter back to the uk is around 550

"at the worst a transporter back to the uk is around 550 " and when you knock off the cost of the fuel driving back that is not that expensive!

[Tetley]

We have some friends that have been here for a few months and are planning on going home soon but their trip was extended by a extra month.
This means their UK car's MOT will be out of date, which means their insurance is invalid and it would be illegal for them to drive around. Is there anywhere that does the proper UK MOT? Road tax is not a problem as that lasts another 4 months.

Thanks in advance

Lisa

i would get a volentery ITV  at lorca on the car,this will confirm the road worthy ness,i would then check with the insures ,tell them the car has a cert of road worthyness but is been driven back to a uk mot station see what they say.

at the worst a transporter back to the uk is around 550

[alto dogs]

I had same problem in june. I rang my insurance company and explained, they said I would still be covered and they would put a note on my records to that effect. You still stand the chance of being stopped by police but youd be unlucky. Should have mot booked for date of return to uk to satisfy law there. Good luck.

[ramblarider]

Contrary to popular myth, your insurance is NOT invalidated by having an out of date MOT.

It is unlawful to drive a vehicle knowing it to be in an unsafe condition, but merely having an expired MOT does not automatically equate to being in an unsafe condition. You can for example lawfully drive a vehicle to a per-arranged appointment at an MOT testing station with an expired MOT - your insurance still covers you and you commit no offence. If you know the vehicle has bad brakes and bald tyres, however, you may not lawfully drive it under any circumstances. You must get it collected. 

[awaywiththefairies]

No there is not a legal way to get a UK in Spain. Some places used to give an ITV (and some may still do) but in effect that was only for the owners benefit in knowing their car was roadworthy, it is never a 'replacement' for an MOT and as far as I am aware does not make you legal as far as insurance.  The only legal thing to do is matriculate it or take it back on a trailer, both of which cost (a lot!).

People in this situation before have booked an MOT ready for their car when they arrive in the UK and taken the risk of driving and having an accident. If I was going to do this (which I am not and do not advocate before someone jumps down my throat  :head) I would consider going from  the ferry in Spain and not driving all the way through France.

[hotphot]

You can only get a UK MOT in the UK

[Lisasbolt]

We have some friends that have been here for a few months and are planning on going home soon but their trip was extended by a extra month.
This means their UK car's MOT will be out of date, which means their insurance is invalid and it would be illegal for them to drive around. Is there anywhere that does the proper UK MOT? Road tax is not a problem as that lasts another 4 months.

Thanks in advance

Lisa