The Mayor of Arboleas has issued a legal instruction to Sophias SL to cease all activities in the municipal nave in El Rulador which are not included in their contract.
The contract between Arboleas Ayuntamiento and Sophias SL only authorises Sophias SL to operate a gymnasium.
Sophias SL has been carrying out activities for which they have no authority, some of which are illegal.
These unauthorised, irregular or illegal activities include:-
Physical rehabilitation
Medical acupuncture
Laser treatment
Invasive beauty treatments
Hypnotherapy
Podiatry
Medical advice in the Well Persons Clinic, including kidney disease and melonomias.
All these activities require the appropriate qualifications registered in Spain.
On the basis of information supplied by Sophias SL, at the request of the Ayuntamiento, none of the workers in the municipal building have any medical or other appropriate qualifications.
These activities are therefore illegal.
In addition Sophias SL has been sub letting rooms in the municipal building without the authority of the Ayuntamiento.
They have been ordered to cease this.
I have been investigating these activities for many months. Sophias SL previously denied the sub letting was taking place, and informed us that all their workers had the correct Spanish registered qualifications.
We have now clarified the facts, and have issued this legal instruction.
On a related issue, Sophias SL has sold the hairdressers, against the knowledge or permission of the Ayuntamiento, and at the same time has been attempting to charge the new owner for renting the salon, against the knowledge of the Town Hall. This only emerged at the end of my investigation, and had nothing to do with the conclusions we have reached.
I am making this point because the new owner of the hairdressing salon is being victimised and blamed for informing the Town Hall of the irregularities in Sophias.
This is not true. I am the only person who is responsible for discovering and investigating these irregularities, something I have been doing for many months.
So I am sorry if some people will lose their jobs as a result, but the only person responsible is the owner of Sophias SL for carrying out these activities.
I know that Sophias SL are blaming me. That's OK. I am guilty in ensuring that the use of a Council building is correct, and that the public is protected against illegal activities.
The Ayuntamiento is preparing detailed procedures for authorising legal activities, either by Sophias or my individual practitioners working independently of Sophias SL.
These authorisations have to be concluded by 30th September when Sophias current contract expires.
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More background information is on www.arboleaslive.com
Oh dear, I heard that the business was up for sale. This won't help with the valuation!!! :bravo_2:
How can you sell a business that is operating what appears to be a complete "scam" as far as "employees" are concerned, pretty clever number really !!! Aside from the completely irresponsible threat to clients if people providing treatments are not registered - this would also mean they are not insured ?????
Also sure this is not a "recent" developmemt !!!!
SCARY :c029: :c029: :c029:
Sorry, there are 2 sides to every story. It seems to me you are setting out to destroy a fantastic facility within the village. Surely a person in your power should keep personal comments to yourself Roger, this is surely hearsay and gossip which should not be published on a community forum!! Innocent until proven guilty!! What evidence do you have to back this up?
Interesting reading, but let us all be honest with each other, nothing unusual?
Whatever has been / is going on within the Ayuntamiento's owned nave, must have been well known and sanctioned by those responsible for running the Ayuntamiento, for whatever convenient reasons. Fully cognisant, culpable ( ask me about what went on in South London's Lambeth council in the '70s). In fact, I will bet my only "Love me tender" Elvis, 78 RPM record to the person who proves me wrong.
The main thought that runs through my mind and, makes me more angry than a customer telling me has looked at Google and knows what the fault is with their TV, is that there will be casualties, innocent people, who have been unknowingly sub renting, letting whatever, trying to do things correctly. Probably in all innocents for that I am sure. They stand to loose out. But surely, any interested party who wants to provide a service, run a legit business etc... could go to the Ayuntamiento to see what is available.
It would be nice that "start-ups" were provided with an easier path via the authorities. Nice corner shops. After all, that's what Britain is built on.... Sorry, forgot where I was.
My support to those that are genuine victims. If I can help, let me know.
Yes Seth, you are so right. The building was Designed to Sophias specifications by the Ayuntamiento to incorporate therapy rooms, rehabilitation etc all approved at the time! Obviously they now have something else in mind for the building so try to make out illegal practices are going on, all of which were agreed at the start! All very sad for the local community.
There is no defence for illegal activities, or knowingly working outside your contract, especially activities that have the potential to damage a person. Setting up a practice, or a business in the areas described without the proper qualifications, which would also mean without proper insurance will always have problems. Legal instruction to cease activities without penalty seems fair. I remember a very similar story of a health center set up Hackney in 2007, ran for a few years, served the local community well, but illegal, closed down completely, and that, just like here, was run by, and for immigrants mainly.
It strikes me that Roger and the TH can't do right for doing wrong.
If this premises is conducting medical procedures such as Acupuncture, Laser treatment and Invasive Beauty treatments etc, and using staff without the correct qualifications and insurance. Then the TH is absolutely right to close them down until such time that qualified staff and correct procedures are followed.
If someone had been injured by such practices, and it is found that the TH knew about it, but had done nothing, then the residents of Arboleas would be shouting for Rogers head on a plate!
You just can't please everyone!
Surely all the "medical" practitioners at Sophias must have their own insurance through their various professional institute bodies, or they would not be able to legally practice, nor retain their legal qualifications or their professional titles.
I know that, when I had my private chiropody practice in the uk, I had to have yearly professional indemnity insurance (up to £3,000,000 cover), 3rd party insurance, property/business premises insurance, health and safety spot checks, yearly equipment/electrical checks and compliance certificates. If not, I would have been struck off, my professional qualifications taken away and would have been banned from practicing. If the practitioners at Sophias have none of these and have not questioned whether the premises are covered, then surely they must have realised that something was "not quite right" !!!!!!
Nothing I have published is rumour.
Everything is fact based on the documents eventually provided to the Town Hall by Sophias.
According to these documents NONE of the workers in Sophias have any medical qualifications.
I and the Town Hall had no option but to take action to protect the public.
It is true that the therapy rooms were built by the Town Hall,
BUT not to be sublet to other people and not to be used by unqualified personnel.
Sophias assured us that the staff were qualified.
The document supplied to the Town Hall show that they are not.
AND why did Sophias think it was acceptable to sell the hairdressing business without discussing this with the Town Hall.
I have the sales contract.
Yes there are always 2 sides.
The right side and the wrong side.
I was not comparing the requirements in the UK to those in Spain....I know that qualifications and professional indemnity insurance cover have to be translated and approved by the Spanish authorities before you can practice out here!!!!!
I was simply pointing out that the "properly" UK qualified practitioners at Sophias should have automatically known this anyway. They would have been told by their professional institutes in the UK that this was a necessary requirement to practice outside of the UK. Any of the practitioners at Sophias who didn't get this aspect of their business sorted out beforehand would have known they were practicing illegally and would get struck off their professional register if found out !!!!!!!!!
Personally id have thought this was a offical ongoing & confidental matter between the GYM and the town hall Legal Secatery.
I agree with Tetley that all this detailed information should not be on an open forum. Apart from the damage to Sophias there are people working there who have been put at risk.
It has been open for 5years with therapy rooms being used by different practitioners. These people have more than likely got their own insurance cover and some type of qualifications.
As a retired nurse I am not aware that all those practitioners need medical qualifications unless the regulations are different in Spain.
There are several businesses havi g different practitioners coming in. Are they also at risk.
Call me cynical but we have been told the new medical centre is too big for the population. Therefore it could be assumed that there is a need to fill it with something.!!!
Yes I realise that something's have happened which should not have but why are innocent people to be punished.
I would have more faith in an an administration who do not hang dirty washing out in public for anyone who does not like the gym to put the boot in. Plus extra detail on Arboleas live. Disgraceful.
The Town Hall has correctly closed down some of the activities being carried out by Sophias.
I have a public duty to be totally transparent about the actions of the elected Council, including the reasons why we have taken this action.
People have the democratic right to know what their elected representatives are doing.
Local Councils should not be doing things in secret without explaining their actions to their public.
On the subject of the possibly illegal medical or quasi medical activities; when I discovered from Sophias that the practitioners have no qualifications, either in the UK or Spain, I was faced with a dilemma. If I said nothing I am putting the clients at potential risk, if I published it would make things difficult for the people doing the work.
In my opinion the workers have been unaware that what they are doing is illegal.
I have no confidence that Sophias will correctly inform their workers about the situation, so I decided to publish.
This is to protect both the general public and the workers against legal action.
(There is a rumour, I believe correct, that an official denuncia has been made to the authorities, but not by me or the Town Hall).
The Town Hall has given until 30th September (when the current contract expires) for submissions for activities in the nave. These can be made either by Sophias, by the individual workers, or by any other organization.
So provided the proposed activity is legal and there are correct working contracts, with details of the prices to be charged, there is no reason why the Town Hall will not approve it.
The important thing is that any activity must be legal and under the control of the Town Hall, because this is a public building, and we have a legal fiduciary duty.
The situation of the new medical centre is in no way related to the issues with Sophias.
The Medical Centre is the property of the Junta Department of Health, not the Town Hall, and all the staff working in the centre will be direct employees of the Department of Health.
However some people have pointed out that when, probably in September, the doctors and nurses are working just a few metres from Sophias it would only be a matter of time before they started to ask questions about the unqualified medical activities in Sophias.
That would then be a big problem.
Rog im a bit confused .com ere
i though yer borrowed 500 k to finish the medical centre in 2012 ? ie Arboleas owns the freehold , but is staffed and run by the Junta.
We borrowed the money, because we had to pay the contractor at each stage, then send the receipt to the Junta who returns the money ... eventually.
The problem was that the Junta forgot to include the project in their financial estimates, so we had to wait a year for the money.
At last all is now sorted.
We have been employing contractors to finish the work, paid them, and got reimbursed by the Junta.
All the signs have been put up by the Junta, and they will even be putting in the furniture.
They will sign it off ready, which is what we are waiting for.
The Junta will then transfer their staff, doctors and nurses.
The bulding is theirs.
We do not know what they will do with the upstairs which is surplus to requirements.
That is up to them because they paid for it.
As for our Nave.
This is registered in the Plannig dept in Almeria as a community building.
Therefore it has to be used for the benefit of the community, and the Town Hall has to be sure we can justify any use.
We cannot allow a private company to do what it wants in the building without approval and authorisation by the Town Hall.
This is what has been happening, and yes the Town Hall is partly at fault for not controlling the situation in the past.
I have spoken to someone today who is offering services in the building, renting from Sophias.
This person has to submit a request to the Town Hall to rent space, and subject to checking on the activity there is no reason we will not agree.
The important thing is that we have to check on what is being done in the public building, we have to approve the activities, and we have to check on the legality.
If not it is the Councillors who will be legally responsible because we will be failing in our fiduciary duty.
I have enough experience about this legal obligation when Thatcher threatened to embargo my house when I was a County Councillor.
And yes the same law exists in Spain.
Quote from: Roger on August 11, 2017, 12:57:03 PM
We borrowed the money, because we had to pay the contractor at each stage, then send the receipt to the Junta who returns the money ... eventually.
The problem was that the Junta forgot to include the project in their financial estimates, so we had to wait a year for the money.
At last all is now sorted.
We have been employing contractors to finish the work, paid them, and got reimbursed by the Junta.
All the signs have been put up by the Junta, and they will even be putting in the furniture.
They will sign it off ready, which is what we are waiting for.
The Junta will then transfer their staff, doctors and nurses.
The bulding is theirs.
We do not know what they will do with the upstairs which is surplus to requirements.
That is up to them because they paid for it.
As for our Nave.
This is registered in the Plannig dept in Almeria as a community building.
Therefore it has to be used for the benefit of the community, and the Town Hall has to be sure we can justify any use.
We cannot allow a private company to do what it wants in the building without approval and authorisation by the Town Hall.
This is what has been happening, and yes the Town Hall is partly at fault for not controlling the situation in the past.
I have spoken to someone today who is offering services in the building, renting from Sophias.
This person has to submit a request to the Town Hall to rent space, and subject to checking on the activity there is no reason we will not agree.
The important thing is that we have to check on what is being done in the public building, we have to approve the activities, and we have to check on the legality.
If not it is the Councillors who will be legally responsible because we will be failing in our fiduciary duty.
I have enough experience about this legal obligation when Thatcher threatened to embargo my house when I was a County Councillor.
And yes the same law exists in Spain.
Well done Rog .
I as a Director of Sophia Wellness Centre read this late last night. I apologies for the delay in updating everyone. I have to be careful as this topic is in the hands of our solicitor for slander from a particular individual. Due to this I am limited to what I can discuss.
Firstly - Sophia is not up for sale. It is at full capacity with the toning tables, therapies and classes. The gym this month has been quiet due to the heat, but we expect this. In all we are pleased with our constant increase year on year.
None of our staff are leaving, being sacked or working illegally. We have an amazing team here and we are thankful for the trust and respect and loyalty they have always shown us at Sophias.
Sophia SL contract DOES NOT state it can only operate as a gym. All Therapist and staff are fully trained and qualified to carry out the work they do. We supplied to the Town Hall an update last month of all qualifications. At a meeting yesterday we were advised in Spain to get them all stamped in Almeria. Which we have started today. Sophia will not be damaged by what has been said and will continue to grow and work with the amazing clients we have. I would like to thank again my team, Danny and Mike for the support we are always given and for the Mayor in supporting the ongoing partnership we have. Unfortunately one of the councilors was unable to attend the meeting and I can only imagine this is what has caused these confusions!!
To all our clients over the last 10 years we thank you for your support and will continue to offer you an amazing service. Regardless of what else will be put on this post I will not be replying as I have bigger and better things to do but will not accept any slander towards me or my staff. One last thing, we all live in an amazing area, lets support our local village and villagers and be more positive on the good things that are done. I wish you all a very Happy Weekend.
As a member of Sophia's for the past 5 years , I can honestly say that I have never found any member of staff to be anything other than entirely professional . I have had many treatments from the therapists and use the gym along with participating in the various classes on a regular basis , all of which are first class . Sophia's is a massive part of the local community and provide a great and much needed service to our village ..... helping raising funds for walk for life and much more . I know I am not alone in hoping this matter is sorted asap and Sophia's and their staff can continue their great work !!!
Let's hope all this is sorted out as soon as possible so all the staff can continue with their good work
Quote from: sharonc on August 11, 2017, 16:50:27 PM
Let's hope all this is sorted out as soon as possible so all the staff can continue with their good work
ditto on that one.
[What an extraordinary "saga" !] ... But it would certainly be a great tragedy if Sophias stops operating.
I can only agree with Nicbats comments. Whatever the "rights and wrongs" Information of this nature should never have been posted on an open fortum in the first place. It should have been kept soley between the two parties concerned.
they has the impression that I am conducting a campaign against Sophias.
I understand why she would think that, and I am sorry if that is how it has come over; it is not the reason why I am taking the stand which I am.
they has the obligation to build, protect and maximize the profits of her company. That is correct. That is the duty of the director of any private company. She is doing the correct thing to fulfill that obligation.
The problem is the Ayuntamiento.
As a Councillor I believe that I have the moral and legal duty to protect the public interest.
It is obviously inevitable that there will be a conflict between the public interest and the private interest.
That is life. We each protect our own corner.
they has been more effective in protecting her corner than the Ayuntamiento has been in protecting the public interest. That is not Sophias fault, it is the fault of the Ayuntamiento.
I have been objecting to the inaction of the Ayuntamiento for several years, without the support of any other Councillor.
When we gave Sophias the use of the public nave in 2012/13 the verbal understanding was that the Town Hall would have shared use.
When this did not materialize I objected to the Mayor. He shrugged his shoulders.
The effect is that the Ayuntamiento gave a public building to a private company at a symbolic rent, thus depriving the community of the use of that building.
Of course some members of the community use the building, as clients of Sophias. Sophias are doing a good job of providing services to their clients.
But for non Sophias clients, including almost all the Spanish community, they have been deprived of the only community asset in Arboleas.
This is wrong, but Sophias are not in the wrong. I apologise if that is how it has come over.
Legally the Ayuntamiento is failing in its fiduciary duty. Something my colleagues do not seem to understand.
Obviously if this puts me in a difficult position that is something I will have to consider.
The Town Hall is doing a good job at improving the infrastructure.
But there is more to a town than concrete and tarmac.
Last year ACCRA, an Arboleas community group, had to hold their fair in Zurgena because we have no community hall.
FACE have held very successful fairs at the Kubatin, but because it is not in the Town Centre there were very few Spanish present.
Last winter FACE and Arbuli festival was held in a wet tent with no toilets, at great cost to the Town Hall, because we have no community hall.
There is no opportunity to hold community get togethers, uniting the two communities, because there is no council facility.
There was such a facility until it was given to Sophias.
That is my objection, because at weekends we have the Council Nave not in use.
It should be shared use because there is sufficient space, but I have no support.
We have the promise of a community centre, but this has been promised for 18 months, and I am still pushing to get action.
Even if we get it the building will be of a lower spec than the current nave.
We have two separate communities which we should be uniting.
Quote from: Nicbat on August 10, 2017, 22:28:55 PM
Yes Seth, you are so right. The building was Designed to Sophias specifications by the Ayuntamiento to incorporate therapy rooms, rehabilitation etc all approved at the time! Obviously they now have something else in mind for the building so try to make out illegal practices are going on, all of which were agreed at the start! All very sad for the local community.
Quote from: Tetley on August 11, 2017, 10:04:55 AM
Personally id have thought this was a offical ongoing & confidental matter between the GYM and the town hall Legal Secatery.
l agree with these comments (sounds like some one in the town hall has a hidden agenda)
I would rather the TH act responsibly as they have done and wait until someone has cause to legal action because a treatment went wrong by someone not practicing with proper paperwork. I cannot understand why anyone should think the TH has an alternative objective.
Surely, this whole matter is simple........
Is the business providing a "Community" based service to all ??
Are all of the services offered, working to the correct protocol - ie. registered if necessary, qualified, paying the appropriate taxes and insured etc.
In any event, surely the Town Hall as the "owners", need to respond and confirm what the real situation is ????
If the business that is operating from these premises is compliant with all legal requirements, then they have no need for concern.....
:104:
Some people may believe that these are matters which should remain confidential.
I believe that these are public issues about how the town is run and should be in the public domain.
The issue is not whether Sophias should continue to offer the services to its clients.
It is about whether the Ayuntamiento has the legal obligation to oversee what is happening in a public building.
For 5 years the Ayuntamiento has failed in this duty because it seems that I am the only person who thinks it is important. Maybe this will change now, but I suspect nothing will change in practice.
There is the issue of the public access to the building. This would not interfere with what Sophias is offering because there is ample space and there are times when it is little used.
At the meeting we had Paula agreed. The Mayor did not.
Next door there is a small hall which has been made available for the local children as a gymnastics centre. This was a huge battle to achieve this.
It is packed with equipment, all paid for by public donation.
You would be excused for not realizing how successful an activity this is because there are no photos in the Fiesta booklet; the other councillors take no interest. The children offered to put on a display at the Fiesta, but it was inconvenient.
The children of course need a toilet, so I suggested we open the dividing door to Sophias, which the Council has welded shut, so that they could use the toilet suite in the gym.
Instead unnecessary money was spent on a small toilet block in the already small gymnastics hall. Why?
Four evenings every week the gymnastics hall is overflowing with children from 4 to 9pm, two evenings competing for space with a judo class.
Children have had to be turned away.
At the same time, a metre away through the closed door, there is unused space in the gym.
I have asked for it to be opened. Why not?
I realize that by airing these issues in public, it will make it difficult for me as a member of a team. However in politics you have to make choices.
For once you have a councillor trying to be open and honest and yet some think he's got another agenda.
As far as I can see his HIDDEN agenda is to provide your village with a community centre that is available to all at all times.Yet some of you are not happy.
If this Sophia's has nothing to hide then as long as she has the correct paperwork then she has no problem. If she is NOT sub-letting then she has no worries.
IF all those who perform various services are FULLY qualified and insured then they have no problems.
Filipe It's all very well to say wait until someone has cause to complain then do something. By then it will be too late as the TH will be sued.
Stable door horse bolting comes to mind!!
Nibbler.
I agree with you nibbler, if you all dont watch out you could loose a great Arboleas asset. ROGER.
That is my point nibbler. You simply cannot wait until that happens. Which is why Roger is right in dealing with it the way he has.
Firstly, I would like to thank Roger for his apology. Finally you have admitted the Director of a company may run it how she sees fit.
As I, and many other see it, there was a large empty Nave sitting on the edge of the village, which was maybe used a few times a year. Sophia's were approached by the Ayuntamiento to turn it into a Gymnasium and Wellness centre. Sophia's agreed and the hard work began. Sophia's relocated in November 2012. Since then the business has grown and is now a hub of the community.
A lot of time and money was spent ensuring the community was served well.
For 5 years the business has worked, for 5 years blood,sweat and tears have been poured into ensuring it thrives. After all, it has to as Sophia's have made a huge financial commitment.
I understand as a council you need to be open and transparent but why on earth did you feel it necessary to publish on a local forum that things are running illegally? This statement is infact untrue, along with many other statements you made. The contract has NEVER stated that Sophia's can only run a gymnasium.
Your statement that none of the workers have appropriate qualifications is in fact completely untrue.
Comments like this should never have been made, especially by some in your position
I hope now this witch hunt is over, and the many months you have spent investigating you now realise have not been a good use of your time.
If an area is so desperately needed for various functions, why have you just transformed the only available space into a gymnastics centre?
It is time to draw a line under this issue. The statements you made should never have been publicly broadcast with inaccurate accusations.
Have any other local businesses been scrutinised? Are we to expect anyone else to be publicly slandered? Or was this just a case of victimisation
Admin its about time this thread was removed and the issue be resolved in
the town hall.
Nothing I have published here I have not discussed with Cristobal over many months.
I have also told him that I cannot avoid going public.
The Council has the legal responsibility to regulate what happens in the town.
We have seen what has happened in the past when local councils have been casual in urban regulations .. we have finished up with illegal houses, missing infrastructure, legal houses with illegal swimming pools.
We are now trying to control whether people put stone cladding on their walls without a licence, but for 5 years have done nothing to regulate what is happening in our municipal building.
Regarding the services supplied by Sophias, there is absolutely no doubt that their contract states that they have permission to operate a gym, and that they must obtain prior permission from the Town Hall for any other activity.
The Town Hall has known the situation and done nothing. That is down to the Town Hall.
The question of what services can be supplied with or without qualifications is complicated.
For example if you are providing acupuncture in a health centre you must have medical supervision. If not in a health centre there is no regulation, which is strange.
However the council has to give permission and can take a view, particularly regarding insurance against personal liability.
None of this is happening.
The situation regarding the lack of a social centre in Arboleas is in my opinion totally unacceptable.
There was a social centre, but it was given to Sophias.
Now there is money in the budget to build a new centre, for 150,000 euros. This has been talked about since 2012.
From the plans it will be a poor replacement for the existing nave, and I doubt if it will be finished this year; it has not been put out to contract yet.
I keep getting promises.
I see no reason why we cannot discuss with Sophias for shared use of the nave. They are willing to discuss it. Why is there a problem for the Town Hall?
And think what we could do with the 150,000 euros we would save, particularly given that to implement Innovation 14 there is a lot of technical work to pay for and a lot of infrastructure to complete, none of which is in the budget.
I hope people can see why I am frustrated.
All members of staff at Sophia Wellness centre have their qualification certificates hanging on the walls of Sophias.
It is only recently that they've been told these need to be " stamped" in Almeria.
Can we not all agree that the legalities in Spain change so often it is difficult to know, whether you own a property, a business or a job.
Anyone who has given an opinion on this forum should first go to Sophias and see for themselves.
Thank you
I am an outsider looking in and have no hidden agenda. I have lived in Arboleas for many years and know a great many people here, both British and Spanish.
It saddens me enormously what I have been reading but I believe that Roger is 100 per cent right in carrying out these important investigations. I have a few questions of my own:
If the Town Hall agreed to rent the whole nave to Sophia's at just a mere 300 euros a month, why does Paula charge rent to the salon and therapists? Not only is the Town Hall subsidising her business, they are allowing her to sublet rooms that do not belong to her. The gymnasium probably doesn't make a huge income for Paula and supposedly taking commissions for therapies and charging rent for the therapy rooms hugely boosts this, but why should Paula be using a community asset for her own gain? Furthermore her husband operates his locksmith's business from Sophia's too. Why is the Town Hall allowing all this to happen? Selling the salon for a large sum also doesn't seem right. Paula writes about the 'amazing service' they offer to Arboleas, but it's no different to paying other similar local businesses for their services (and these businesses have greater overheads!).
The main and most important issue Roger has raised is whether the therapies taking place under the nave roof are being carried out by qualified people, in particular the rehab clinic. I know of a person who paid a substantial amount of money up front for rehabilitation. I have since learnt that the person who carries out the rehabilitation is a lady who takes the step aerobics classes. I also believe she is not qualified to carry out such highly skilled work. In the recent Walk For Life calendar (great calendar by the way, be sure to buy a copy) there is an advertisement by Sophia's which reads: Rehabilitation Centre to aid recovery for stroke survivors, recent hip and knee operations, back problems and mobility issues. Scary if said person isn't qualified! If Paula is adamant that all qualifications are in place, I would ask her to post copies of them on the open forum to put all our minds at rest. She does have a duty of care and this is quite an acceptable request. Also public liability insurance covering all activities needs to be in place. Can we see a copy of this too?
I too had heard that Paula is selling Sophia's and given that her house is on the market, I would imagine that this is the case. Given that the nave does not belong to her and that there isn't a lease in place, I'm guessing IF she does sell it, it will be sold as a going concern. I hope any potential buyers are reading this and that they will work with the Town Hall to create a facility that is beneficial to everyone and allow local charities to use the available space too for fundraising events. I have Spanish friends who would use the gymnasium if it was open later at night and British working friends who would do the same. Classes held are in the afternoon which doesn't accommodate these people either. We need a facility that benefits everyone.
I am confused by Paula saying the qualifications will be stamped in Almeria. I had a friend from South America who is a qualified dentist. It took him a very long time to get registered to practice here in Spain. I can't imagine it's just a case of getting qualifications stamped. I found this on the internet: The validation procedure for academic or professional awards and certificates is complex. Firstly contact your university or college and obtain an outline of your course and along with your certificates have these translated into Spanish by an official interpreter. They will then need to have an official stamp from this interpreter. Then you will need to send all your documents along with the standard application form to the Ministry of Education in Spain. I wonder if some qualifications need to meet Spanish criteria?
I do not understand why Paula is accusing Roger of slander. It seems to me that these investigations have been going on for some time and going public was Roger's only way of getting something sorted, instead of it being brushed under the carpet like so many things have been in the past. As for Paula asking "Have any other local businesses been scrutinised? Are we to expect anyone else to be publicly slandered? Or was this just a case of victimisation", this is just ridiculous as other businesses are not operating in premises owned by the Town Hall and are not their responsibility.
In summary, I think Roger deserves thanks for continuing to have the public's best interests at heart. Paula should also be grateful that he has pointed out the irregularities in her business. She might not be happy that he's gone public but at the end of the day, he had no choice as all the issues would have continued to be ignored by both the Town Hall and Sophia's.
I wish all the therapists at Sophia's and the new owner of Loren's Hair Salon the very best and long may they continue to serve the residents of Arboleas and beyond.
Can I just say I very rarely go into this forum let alone post but I was informed of this post so have been reading some of the comments. I do not know Roger but do know he has done some amazing things for Arboleas but his comments on this forum leaves much to be desired. To infer that medical treatments have been undertaken by inexperience d practioners is untrue. At least two of them worked for the NHS in England for many years so how can he say they are inexperienced! Sophias are a great asset to Arboleas. Bye the way Roger who is the gentleman who would take over? Seems very suspicious to me. But there you go , another hard working business under threat.
Re Rach's post... :bravo_2: a very sensible response.
I have been accused of having an agenda in relation to the Municipal nave.
My only agenda is the same as it was when in 2009 I set up the Help Desk.
It is to help the people of Arboleas, for no financial reward, and to make Arboleas a better and safer place to live.
I organised the 2011 election campaign to ensure that we got a change in the Town Hall to get rid of corruption and to help everyone get a legal and correctly registered home.
Without my efforts this would not have happened..
So when I am accused of publishing incorrect facts my public credibility is on the line, and I have a right to correct some of the statements made.
____________________________________________________________________________
First, it is a fact that the contract which Sophias have with the Town Hall specifically states that there is only permission to run the gym.
Any other activity requires prior approval by the Town Hall.
___________________________________________________________________________
Regarding qualifications, I am sure that many of the people working in Sophias have qualifications. The question is whether they are relevant to the service they are providing and whether they are registered in Spain if required.
The following is from Sophias web site today.
___________________________________________________________________________
Rehabilitation
Most injuries require fast initial intervention to prevent long term medical reliance.
Would you like to get your mobility back?
Have you any of the following problems?
The rehabilitation of joint replacement
Arthritis
Multiple Sclerosis
Fibromyalgia
Rheumatism
M.E. chronic fatigue syndrome
Stroke survivors
Sports rehabilitation
General rehabilitation
Various back problems
Obesity
Diabetes
Hypertension
Tension
Broken Bones
Most injuries require fast initial intervention to prevent long term medical reliance.
HEART ATTACKS AND GENERAL WELL BEING
Cardio machines as well as strength improving and weight bearing equipment are required. Consideration should be given to running machines, steppers, cross trainers and rowing machines, bicycles and vibration plates.
STROKE VICTIMS AND MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS SUFFERERS
Electrical assisted machines are ideal. Sophia Wellness Centre already supply this facility and assist clients of this nature.
MAJOR HIP / KNEE AND JOINT SURGERIES
Stability, mobility and flexibility exercises require very little machinery. Small hand weights, steps, bars, balls and wobble boards would be required, moving onto weight bearing exercises via fixed machinery.
_____________________________________________________________________________
According to the documents supplied to the Town Hall by Sophias the person who works as a "Rehabilitation Specialist" is Michelle Dixon.
According to the documents supplied to the Town Hall by Sophias, there are two qualifications supplied to us for Michelle Dixon as follows:-
STRETCH TECHNIQUES
By Lifeworks Unlimited
A workshop in
STRETCH TECHNIQUES
Dated 8th December 1990
_____________________________
Fitness Professionals
Pro Step Certificate of Attendance
Totally four and a half hours
7th February 1993
Advanced Step Cheography
New bench Stepping Patterns
New Bench Stepping Combinations
Methods of increasing exercise intensity
___________________________________
I am happy to receive other qualifications which have been overlooked,
But this is the evidence on which I am basing my concern.
What people don't seem to understand is that UK qualifications don't necessarily conform to the Spanish system. There is a process that various professionals need to go through before they are licensed in Spain.
Vets , dentists and nurses are but a few.
If has been said all those carrying out practices at Sophia's are legally entitled to, then I'm sure that if they present their credentials and insurance to the TH everything will be fine.
Re the certificates hanging on walls. With respect, I could go onto the internet and become "Qualified" in all sorts of professions.in 5 minutes
In an age where compensation seems to be the watchword of many it is common sense to want to protect yourself as much as possible.
Nibbler
Re the certificates hanging on walls. With respect, I could go onto the internet and become "Qualified" in all sorts of professions.in 5 minutes
How true!
Sophias have been asked by another contributor to publish the qualifications of their workers.
I await this with interest.
I have published the only qualifications which Sophias has provided the Town Hallfor their Rehab specialist.
I am now publishing the only other qualifications which Sophias has sent to the Town Hall for the workers in their treatment rooms.
In my opinion none of these are valid for the services being offered.
I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong.
______________________________________________________________________
Sophias offers a well persons clinic, as shown below on their web site.
This is a very good service, but I am sure people will agree that it should be provided by a medical professional, who has to have their credentials registered in Spain.
________________________________________________________________________
Well Person Clinic
WHAT ARE WELL PERSON'S CLINICS?
Well person's clinics offer a range of health checks for men and women. A well person's clinic is not a replacement for your Doctor. If you are ill or need medical advice, see your Doctor.
What health checks do well Person's clinics offer?
Medical history
Weight
Blood pressure and pulse
BMI Check
A urine test for diabetes or kidney infection
Promotion of good mental health
Lung function (peak flow) and breath test
Checking moles
An assessment of your lifestyle, including diet, exercise, alcohol and smoking, advice and possible treatment
________________________________________________________________________
There is only one other person for whom I have been provided with qualifications by Sophias.
I believe, in the absence of any other information, that this is the person who is operating this clinic.
The qualifications are as follows:-
______________________________________________________________________
There are four diplomas from an un named OA Academy
Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, dated July 2015
Conflict Management, dated August 2015
Master Herbalist, dated August 2015
Mental Health and Social care, dated August 2015
From NLP Centre of Excellence Ltd,
Hypnotherapy and Cognitive Techniques for Stress Management in Business
October 2015
International Association of NLP and Coaching
Acupuncture
Issued January 2016
Expired September 2016
_______________________________________________________________________
Does anyone really think these are valid qualifications for giving medical advice?
There is a grey area about hat qualifications you need for acupuncture, hypnotherapy and lipo suction, if not taking place in a registered health centre.
However I believe that potential clients need to know if there are any qualifications.
Am I the only person who is astonished that Roger is the only member of the Ayuntiamento willing to put his head above the parapet?
What has happened to Danny and Mike etc. ? Surely they have an opinion.
I value very highly the work that has been done by the current council but:
Sophias pay 300 euros a month and provide a service that is used by a very small percentage of the population for limited hours each day.
A new community centre will cost 150,000 euros.
That is 500 months rent ...... over 50 years!
Something is very wrong here.
I am astonished that so few people are expressing their concern.
Come on councillors, we voted for you. I expect you to honour that trust and express an opinion.
Felipe it is time this stopped
The line has been cossed with the disclosure of personal
Infomation about employees of Sophias
under the data protection laws this must be removed.
You as the owner have a duty
Quote from: phillk on August 12, 2017, 16:37:17 PM
Felipe it is time this stopped
The line has been cossed with the disclosure of personal
Infomation about employees of Sophias
under the data protection laws this must be removed.
You as the owner have a duty
Would you be posting this if you weren't Paula's husband and joint owner of Sophia's?
Roger, I believe that the person you are referring to was a registered nurse in the UK for many years. Why hasn't Paula presented this information to the Town Hall?! Naturally this needs to be registered in Spain and I truly think that the lady in question has been misguided with regard to this important issue. Furthermore, the dates of the diplomas presented by Paula just don't add up. They are dated: one in July 2015, three in August 2015 and one in October 2015. Maybe the courses are short and achievable within such a short timescale. I also believe that this person has other qualifications and by all accounts is a lovely lady. I hope that she and others can seek help and guidance, get registered correctly in Spain and continue to offer their services.
How can this be personal information when we have been told that these are qualifications posted on the wall in Sophias.
The information I have posted is from photographs taken by Paula of the certificates on the walls, and sent to the Town Hall.
The question that must be answered by Sophias is whether there are any other qualifications which were not sent to the Town Hall.
If these are the only qualifications then can someone explain to me why they are worth anything.
ALL this will be in the weekly newspaper AND maybe some Spanish ones !! SO, why not here ?
Hi everyone my name is Fay a therapist from Sophia's I have enclosed my certificate for my RGN ,
( Registered General Nurse)
I have 21 Diploma's all with distinction in the therapies I provide. I am unable to post them all as Additional Options won't let me put that amount of files on. To say I'm not Medically qualified is incorrect.
I would like to thank my clients for their support.
Sorry don t know why it's upside down!
I'm sure no one questions your qualifications in the UK but have these been authorised in Spain. That's one of the questions being asked..
Nibbler.
Town Hall business should stay in the Town Hall
Hi
Maybe I think too simplistically but as you have €150k why not build a "shop" building and ask Sophia's to move into it, charging the normal "shop" rental, you can then take back the community centre.
It would no longer be the responsibility of th TH to monitor Sophia's as it would be down to the owner/s and Arboleas would have the Nave back for the use of all.
This is just my humble opinion.
Moyra
I agree with Moray, the community centre should be available to all and not the selective few who want to use the services of a privately run business. Having said that my husband started play badminton at the centre, albeit on an inadequate court, but did not continue for lack of interest and number attendance. I'm sure though there is a building locally which could be rented out to Sophia to run a gymnasiam/health/fitness centre business, as clearly such a service is of benefit to some.
When I first came to Spain, I had a clinic in Albox, only after my husband and I visited the local police, town hall and health centre ( who hold my business cards) was I told that I may practice my therapies. At Arboleas town hall I would have loved to have had a chance to be at the meetings and state my case. I'm passionate about my work and in Acupuncture I have a much higher rate of success than the normal 20 % of first time treatment success.
fay
As I have explained to your husband, we have no problem with you applying to the Town Hall for permission to use space in the nave to carry out activities which you explain.
The problem is that Sophias have no right to sub let such space. But you can rent it from the Town Hall.
The problem is that the Town Hall has never been approacehed for thsi permission.
Regarding your nursing qulaification from the UK, this will allow you to continue to run a well persons clinic
but you have to register this qualification in Spain.
There is a standard procedure to do this through the Nursing Council of the UK.
All the Town Hall wants to do is to ensure that all activities are registered with the Town Hall and approved, and also to ensure that any rent paidfor using space in the nave is paid to the Town Hall because it is a Town Hall building.
We have a legal obligation to ensure that everything that takes place in that building is with our knowledge and authorised by us.
For the benefit of Fay and anyone else who have UK qualifications and wish them to be applicable for use in Spain, for a nurse the link is as follows
www.nmc.org.uk/registration/working-outside-the-uk/working-in-the-eu
This gives the information of how you transfer your nursing qualification for use in Spain.
It is not valid until you go through this procedure.
It is exactly the same in reverse for a Spanish nurse who wants to work in the UK
Other qualifications will have a similar procedure, through the relevant professional register in the UK.
You cannot simply use your UK qualifications outside the UK without going through your professional body to register them in another EU country.
Of course all this could change post Brexit.
The Town Hall has a legal obligation to ensure that anyone working in a municipal building is doing so legally, otherwise the Council will be legally at fault.
That is why we have carried out the action we have.
Roger's last post mirrors my earlier comments exactly. UK obtained qualifications are usually recognised in countries outside the UK and also outside the EU in countries such as USA and Australia. However, although they are recognised, the practitioner must obtain the relevant permission/authorisation from the relevant country's department of health and, in some cases, take additional qualifications in order to comply with the country's requirements. It is simply not the case of moving out of the UK and setting yourself up in a practice without doing this. Your qualifications may be legal, but it is highly likely your professional indemnity insurance will not be valid, which could cause horrendous problems in the event of a claim. Your insurance company could refuse to pay out on the basis that your qualifications have not been approved and "rubber stamped" by the appropriate body. Why have practitioners not investigated all of this themselves beforehand??? Their professional institutes can provide the appropriate contacts they need in most countries.
There are two issues here.
Both of these I have raised with other councillors over the past 2 years.
I am now raising these issues publicly because as an elected representative I believe that the people who elected me have the democratic right to know what your Town Hall is doing.
There should be no secrets, and no decisions made in private meetings.
The first issue is the oversight by the Town Hall of medical and other activities being undertaken in the Town Hall building.
After many months of demands the Town Hall legal officer has now taken action to regularize this situation.
________________________________________________________________________
The other wider issue is the use of the Municipal nave.
Remember this building does not belong to the Town Hall, it belongs to YOU, the people of Arboleas.
It is there, paid for by public money, for your use.
Certainly a private company has no right to rent out parts of the building for their private profit.
Also I believe that the building should be available to all the people of Arboleas, Spanish and British.
At the moment it is only available to clients of Sophias, which at the most is 5% of the total residents of Arboleas.
I have no objection to the use of the treatment rooms for authorised activities.
Nor do I see any problem in Sophias providing a gym and other associated activities.
But surely not to the total exclusion of the rest of the people of Arboleas.
The building is big enough to accommodate more that the gym, and the treatment rooms are separate from the 3 main areas, currently totally used exclusively by Sophias.
This is my opinion.
Am I alone in this view?
Quote from: Roger on August 15, 2017, 11:45:48 AM
There are two issues here.
Both of these I have raised with other councillors over the past 2 years.
I am now raising these issues publicly because as an elected representative I believe that the people who elected me have the democratic right to know what your Town Hall is doing.
There should be no secrets, and no decisions made in private meetings.
The first issue is the oversight by the Town Hall of medical and other activities being undertaken in the Town Hall building.
After many months of demands the Town Hall legal officer has now taken action to regularize this situation.
________________________________________________________________________
The other wider issue is the use of the Municipal nave.
Remember this building does not belong to the Town Hall, it belongs to YOU, the people of Arboleas.
It is there, paid for by public money, for your use.
Certainly a private company has no right to rent out parts of the building for their private profit.
Also I believe that the building should be available to all the people of Arboleas, Spanish and British.
At the moment it is only available to clients of Sophias, which at the most is 5% of the total residents of Arboleas.
I have no objection to the use of the treatment rooms for authorised activities.
Nor do I see any problem in Sophias providing a gym and other associated activities.
But surely not to the total exclusion of the rest of the people of Arboleas.
The building is big enough to accommodate more that the gym, and the treatment rooms are separate from the 3 main areas, currently totally used exclusively by Sophias.
This is my opinion.
Am I alone in this view?
It's all a bit odd Roger and easy to criticize with hindsight, but why was it not contracted in that the space be available a couple of nights a week for the community in the first place, with a range of programmes to facilitate more integration of the Spanish and English communities from the outset, if that's your objective? Personally I think it will take generations for the two communities to integrate, it's a Pueblo in Almeria, not a cosmopolitan suburb of Barcelona or Paris.
Secondly, it is to be expected that any private Business will seek to maximise income, that is the nature of business. So it is concerning that what is ultimately a political issue from within the TH has spilled out into public potentially wrecking the business intentionally or not, this should never have happened and compromises the TH's integrity but also its viability to conduct business appropriately as a partner to private businesses. And no one else was taking up the slack at the time it became a gym, there wasn't exactly an orderly queue looking to take it on. If Sophias voted with there feet and secured new premises, and who could blame them, what resource would the place then be as you haven't made any firm proposals as to what it would then be used for nor whether any plan is viable. There's still no concrete alternative on the table for everyone to consider.
Thirdly, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Junta have allocated 150,000 E for a new Community Hall, and if it's then spent on Inno 14 instead does this not breach the terms of funds granted, and will the Junta or whoever has granted the 150,000 listen to infrastructure plans and applications for funds again in the future?
Trying to be solution focussed, if you can now persuade Sophias to sign a new contract after all this dirty washing in public, factor into the contract that it is available several nights a month for other community TH lead events, such as a film night, spanish and english talking groups or whatever you feel is missing, and meanwhile get on with building the new Community Hall.
I know the resource was given to Sophias in different economic times and there is a nobility now in seeking to redress the resource for the whole community, but it has been very badly managed with terrible foresight and the airing publicly of grievances was never a good way to go. It's become extremely messy meanwhile.
So best draw a line under it and use the funds approriately and provide what you can with the funds availabe. And do some damage limitation with Sohias before the resource that does exist dissapears.
Just my view.
The 150,000 euros is not Junta money.
It is money from the tax payers of Arboleas.
I agree that the orriginal contract was flawed.
None of the British Councillors saw it.
We only saw it when I asked for a copy a few months ago.
As for keeping everything secret, if that what the electors of Arboleas want then they have the wrong representative.
All the more reason to spend the 150,000 on a Commnity Space then as it has been allocated. A new Hall could always be extended in the future or improved. You could argue spending on Inno 14 only benefits the 300 illegal house owners and not the whole community that a Community Hall could do. Having the houses legalised will be a relief for the owners and improve the areas reputation for all but surely if demand exists a new Community Hall would be far more beneficial for all whilst Inno 14 is resolved in future spending rounds.
And there's a massive difference between conducting TH business in Private away from the eyes of the community and airing dirty laundry in public on a forum. One is deceptive, the other is wreckless and unprofessional.
Is there any demand for a Community space that may well stand empty otherwise? I might be wrong but it feels politically motivated and not evidence based. If only 5% use Sophias, the other 95% are awfully quiet.
Again just my oppinion.
Well John Jones you have got my vote! If you ever decide to stand you will get my vote everytime, perhaps it's about time for some new blood Rog!!! Preferably someone who knows how to conduct themselves on EVERY level and not just when it suits.
Quote from: Roger on August 15, 2017, 12:29:46 PM
I agree that the orriginal contract was flawed.
None of the British Councillors saw it.
We only saw it when I asked for a copy a few months ago.
As for keeping everything secret, if that what the electors of Arboleas want then they have the wrong representative.
I for one do not approve of any council keeping things "secret" that can only lead to "mates" receiving the benefit of any TH benefits.
I feel Roger has done the right thing the only problem is people get nasty when it's really not called for. There is a problem Sophia's is doing something they should not have done in a TH owned building, it's now in the public domain, OK, we have all made mistakes, let's be adult enough to rectify the problem and move on. Sophia's will continue I'm sure with the client base they have and will grow.
Let's all stop "bashing" people be they a member of the public or council and try to be civil to each other. We all have our own opinions and have the right to air them but not to verbally abuse anyone. A debate is one thing a slinging match is something else.
Moyra
Moyra, A very good Post. We agree 100%. we would like to add, in our opinion, we would like to read about some support for Roger, from other members of our Council.
Jack Jones post :clap:
:38:
Am I wrong, but, ........... when I went to school, many eons ago, .......... slander was a spoken defamation and libel was a written defamation......which one are we discussing here??????
Seems to me its a case of alleged libel, not slander.....(OCD kicking in again)........or have I got this completely wrong??????
Roger. I have read everything that people have written on this subject. I would just like to say that you have our support. I hope that the problem can be solved amicably. B & Gxx.
I too support Roger and am a loss as to why the Mayor and councillors are not backing him. it makes one think they they knew about this all along, or they have a vested interest in staying quiet. At the end of the day it is the communities asset we are talking about
Another long post, sorry! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see the situation quite simply:
- Roger was opposed to the nave being used solely for a private business venture from day one.
- Roger heard about irregular activities being carried out at the nave and started his investigation a long time ago but his concerns have always fallen on deaf ears.
- Sophia's were asked if fundraising events could take place at weekends when they were closed. The answer was no. Roger, do you know how much it costs the Town Hall to rent the big marquee for fundraising events, etc.? I bet it's not cheap.
- Many people, not just Roger, aired their concerns about the rehab clinic at Sophia's. This highly skilled work is apparently being carried out by an aerobics instructor. Scary stuff.
- Roger had heard that a complaint had been made about this to an official body which made the situation more serious for both the Town Hall and Sophia's.
- With the imminent opening of the new medical centre, it was clear that professionals in the medical field would be asking questions. Roger again urged all concerned to sort out the irregularities.
- Sophia's said that all the activities being carried out were done by qualified people.
- Roger and the Town Hall asked for proof and they STILL haven't received it; I asked for proof on the forum and STILL we haven't seen anything. Only Fay has had the decency to respond.
- Roger asked Sophia's for proposals to be put forward for the extra activities being carried out, along with details of contracts, qualifications, etc., so these could be approved. Nothing was received.
- Roger said he would go public if this wasn't resolved privately as it was the only choice available. Again ignored.
- If Sophia's had worked with Roger and the Town Hall who have been more than accommodating in helping them build a thriving business, it would not have become a public matter.
- Roger was protecting the interests of the public, Town Hall and believe it or not, Sophia's.
John Jones, you say "Personally I think it will take generations for the two communities to integrate, it's a Pueblo in Almeria, not a cosmopolitan suburb of Barcelona or Paris". Strange thing to say as I see all nationalities here in Arboleas integrating at schools, other local clubs, fundraising events, bars, the Town Hall, etc. As for Roger airing dirty laundry, trust me a big bar of Vanish couldn't even tackle some of the other 'manchas' that have come to light, but he, I and others are keeping these matters private and are just sticking to the main important facts.
150,000 sounds like a lot of money but in reality I don't think it would cover the cost of a new community building. Furthermore, I personally would be happy if that money was used to help with the cost of infrastructure, etc. following the approval of Innov 14 so those poor souls who have waited so long for their houses to be properly legalised can get their lives back on track. We have great community spirit in Arboleas and I'm sure the majority of residents would feel the same.
So how do we move forward from this? My opinion: Sophia's - sort your act out; Town Hall – sort your act out; Residents of Arboleas – please, please post here on this forum how you would like to see the community nave used so the mayor can read for himself what we all want (his English is very good!). I'm sure an agreement can be made where the nave can be shared by the gym, therapists and us, the residents of Arboleas for charity events, etc. and the extra revenue from renting out the therapy rooms will top up our community pot. Besides, on a plus note for Sophia's, the salon and therapists, the more people who pass through that door and seeing the great facilities available can only be good for business eh?
Good post rach a voice of reason. Roger doesn't stand a chance he's damned if he does and he's damned if he doesn't
Just remember the old days before the British councillors were elected. Roger has always been open and honest and is doing so now. Be careful or he might walk away and that would be a tragedy. In my opinion he is doing the right thing. There should be a place for all the residents of Arboleas to convene both Spanish and ex pats.
Wow. I don't live in Arboleas so please forgive my intrusion. I live in Partaloa and just wish we had someone like Roger in our town hall. An honest, straight talking guy. Few and far between. Why are you not knocking on the door of the town hall and supporting him?
If all goes bad with Brexit you will miss his input.
Give the guy a break. Roger we have never met, you have my utmost respect. Hope your wife's health issues improve.
I have huge respect for Roger in his attempts to resolve a situation that reflects badly on the town hall and the business concerned. I believe him when he says that this could have been resolved by that business and some common sense and co-operation.
Give the guy a break and support him.
Seems to be two very different opinions.
I must admit that I haven't read into things in detail, but my questions are the following:
- Does the Sophia contract run out on September 30th?
- If so, will other companies, as well as Sophia, be able to put projects forward?
The way I thought things happened in local politics is that with council buildings, every certain amount of time, there are 'concursos', giving all companies and ideas an equal opportunity and the best idea wins.
Don't worry, I have no interest 😂
Quote from: languagesolutions on August 15, 2017, 21:34:28 PM
Seems to be two very different opinions.
I must admit that I haven't read into things in detail, but my questions are the following:
- Does the Sophia contract run out on September 30th?
- If so, will other companies, as well as Sophia, be able to put projects forward?
The way I thought things happened in local politics is that with council buildings, every certain amount of time, there are 'concursos', giving all companies and ideas an equal opportunity and the best idea wins.
Don't worry, I have no interest 😂
Agreed. I would have expected a 3 month Termination clause to have kicked in and given Sophias the time before to come up with the goods as required by a deadline.
On the basis Roger says they have not, I would have then rescinded the Contract, inviting others to put forwards new proposals commencing October 1st with the best bid winning.
And then announced publicly Sophias was moving on and whatever was taking over on a 2/3 year contract.
Not taking anything away from Roger and the amazing work he has done not just on Inno 14, but he has helped to change the face of the village and many individuals including myself at times of trouble, clearly seeks to see the two communities converge more. He's been very succesful and committed and achieved more than most of us could have together. it's the process that has been wrong, airing on the Forum, where other 'professionals' have had snide digs clearly with their own agendas, whatever they may be, making it look more witch hunt than anything, that is concerning. I dont doubt Rogers aims have been anything but honourable.
Quote from: Rach on August 15, 2017, 17:28:04 PM
Another long post, sorry! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see the situation quite simply:
- Roger was opposed to the nave being used solely for a private business venture from day one.
- Roger heard about irregular activities being carried out at the nave and started his investigation a long time ago but his concerns have always fallen on deaf ears.
- Sophia's were asked if fundraising events could take place at weekends when they were closed. The answer was no. Roger, do you know how much it costs the Town Hall to rent the big marquee for fundraising events, etc.? I bet it's not cheap.
- Many people, not just Roger, aired their concerns about the rehab clinic at Sophia's. This highly skilled work is apparently being carried out by an aerobics instructor. Scary stuff.
- Roger had heard that a complaint had been made about this to an official body which made the situation more serious for both the Town Hall and Sophia's.
- With the imminent opening of the new medical centre, it was clear that professionals in the medical field would be asking questions. Roger again urged all concerned to sort out the irregularities.
- Sophia's said that all the activities being carried out were done by qualified people.
- Roger and the Town Hall asked for proof and they STILL haven't received it; I asked for proof on the forum and STILL we haven't seen anything. Only Fay has had the decency to respond.
- Roger asked Sophia's for proposals to be put forward for the extra activities being carried out, along with details of contracts, qualifications, etc., so these could be approved. Nothing was received.
- Roger said he would go public if this wasn't resolved privately as it was the only choice available. Again ignored.
- If Sophia's had worked with Roger and the Town Hall who have been more than accommodating in helping them build a thriving business, it would not have become a public matter.
- Roger was protecting the interests of the public, Town Hall and believe it or not, Sophia's.
John Jones, you say "Personally I think it will take generations for the two communities to integrate, it's a Pueblo in Almeria, not a cosmopolitan suburb of Barcelona or Paris". Strange thing to say as I see all nationalities here in Arboleas integrating at schools, other local clubs, fundraising events, bars, the Town Hall, etc. As for Roger airing dirty laundry, trust me a big bar of Vanish couldn't even tackle some of the other 'manchas' that have come to light, but he, I and others are keeping these matters private and are just sticking to the main important facts.
150,000 sounds like a lot of money but in reality I don't think it would cover the cost of a new community building. Furthermore, I personally would be happy if that money was used to help with the cost of infrastructure, etc. following the approval of Innov 14 so those poor souls who have waited so long for their houses to be properly legalised can get their lives back on track. We have great community spirit in Arboleas and I'm sure the majority of residents would feel the same.
So how do we move forward from this? My opinion: Sophia's - sort your act out; Town Hall – sort your act out; Residents of Arboleas – please, please post here on this forum how you would like to see the community nave used so the mayor can read for himself what we all want (his English is very good!). I'm sure an agreement can be made where the nave can be shared by the gym, therapists and us, the residents of Arboleas for charity events, etc. and the extra revenue from renting out the therapy rooms will top up our community pot. Besides, on a plus note for Sophia's, the salon and therapists, the more people who pass through that door and seeing the great facilities available can only be good for business eh?
I see your point, but the mixing of the communities is limited, albeit better than the villages beyond Albox. I dont see many Spanish and English youngsters settling down and starting families as mixed races, I think that is a fair litmus test. Especially after all these years. I've been out with a coule of spanish women, (I'm a bit of a tart (halo emoji thingy)) one local who would not go out locally, we would have to go down to the coast for dinner out 'because Spanish and English is too strange' her words, not mine, and one from the north who, when we walked into a local bar, I thought was going to get punchd by a local who was incenced and raging because she was with an Englishman. I had to tell the bloke to sit down in no uncertain terms. Ridiculous in 21st century. So there's a heck of a long way to go on integration, I can tell you that.
On the behind scenes at TH sounds like you know alot more and I acknowledge absolutely Roger has been brilliant.
I hope someone can bang both heads together and sort it out now for the betterment of all. And it is resolved professionally not on a forum. Where it does not belong.
SEE ARBOLEAS LIVE. B
Copied from Arboleas Live. In reading the whole piece it would appear that Roger has every right to disclose this to the general public on the forum. To allow people without qualifications to aid people is disgraceful. To charge someone 300€ rent when that is all Sophias are paying each month is scandalous. That is after they charged the girl 15,000. How much rent are they charging the rest of them in there? Sounds to me that Sophias are on to a good thing and don´t want to let go.
SOPHIAS AND THE MUNICIPAL NAVE
The Mayor of Arboleas has issued a legal instruction to Sophias SL to cease all activities in the municipal nave in El Rulador which are not included in their contract.
The contract between Arboleas Ayuntamiento and Sophias SL only authorises Sophias SL to operate a gymnasium.
Sophias SL has been carrying out activities for which they have no authority, some of which are illegal.
These unauthorised, irregular or illegal activities include:-
Physical rehabilitation
Medical acupuncture
Laser treatment
Invasive beauty treatments
Hypnotherapy
Podiatry
Medical advice in the Well Persons Clinic, including kidney disease and melonomias.
All these activities require the appropriate qualifications registered in Spain.
On the basis of information supplied by Sophias SL, at the request of the Ayuntamiento, none of the workers in the municipal building have any medical or other appropriate qualifications.
In addition Sophias SL has been sub letting rooms in the municipal building without the authority of the Ayuntamiento.
They have been ordered to cease this.
I have been investigating these activities for many months. Sophias SL previously denied the sub letting was taking place, and informed us that all their workers had the correct Spanish registered qualifications.
We have now clarified the facts, and have issued this legal instruction.
On a related issue, Sophias SL has sold the hairdressers, against the knowledge or permission of the Ayuntamiento, and at the same time has been attempting to charge the new owner for renting the salon, against the knowledge of the Town Hall. This only emerged at the end of my investigation, and had nothing to do with the conclusions we have reached.
I am making this point because the new owner of the hairdressing salon is being victimised and blamed for informing the Town Hall of the irregularities in Sophias.
This is not true. I am the only person who is responsible for discovering and investigating these irregularities, something I have been doing for many months.
So I am sorry if some people will lose their jobs as a result, but the only person responsible is the owner of Sophias SL for carrying out these activities.
I know that Sophias SL are blaming me. That's OK. I am guilty in ensuring that the use of a Council building is correct, and that the public is protected against illegal activities.
The Ayuntamiento is preparing detailed procedures for authorising legal activities, either by Sophias or my individual practitioners working independently of Sophias SL.
These authorisations have to be concluded by 30th September when Sophias current contract expires.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
SOPHIAS SL AND THE MUNICIPAL NAVE
Background information
_______________________________________________________________________
In 2012/2013 the Ayuntamiento upgraded the old Nave in El Rulador. We negotiated with Sophias SL to operate a gymnasium in the building, and in October 2013 we signed a 12 month contract with Sophias. The contract gave Sophias the right to install their gymnasium equipment in the building and to operate the activity.
Sophias pay 300 euros per month (plus IVA). In return for this low rental they agreed to offer a 20% discount to Arboleas residents. The contract specified that any other activity in the building must be approved in advance by the Council.
The contract was not renewed (largely the fault of the Council) although Sophias have continued access to the building and pay the rent.
On 1st June the Junta de Gobierno discussed the situation in the nave, as a result of many complaints about the way the facility was being used.
On 14th June I convened a meeting with Sophias to discuss the contract. In attendance were The Mayor, The Council Legal Secretary, Roger Done, Mike Page, Mark Daniels, and Paula Kenny from Sophias.
At the meeting Paula was asked about the new ownership of the hairdressers which had been publicised in the local media. She assured us that the hairdressers had not been sold, there was simply a new person running the salon working for Sophias.
We also asked her about the many medical activities which were being carried out, such as Physical Rehabilitation, and medical advice and various medical practices.
We were assured that all the staff had the appropriate medical qualifications.
I informed Sophias that we required a list of everyone working in the nave, their activity, and copies of their qualifications.
When these were eventually received by e mail it was clear that none were registered in Spain, and as far as we could assess none were of a medical nature.
I prepared a detailed report to the legal secretary advising him of these irregularities.
The other issue relates to the ownership of the hairdressing salon.
I first met the new owner, Lesley Lou Gregory at 10am on Monday 7th August when she attended the Town Hall with her legal adviser to clarify her status in the salon.
At this meeting I was shown a copy of the sales contract for 15,000 euros dated 31st March, signed by the two directors of Sophias SL.
I was also shown the conditions imposed by Sophias under which the new owner would pay Sophias 300 euros per month to rent the salon (which she had purchased!) as well as requiring her to pay Sophias for her Social Security payments, even though she is self employed.
Totally irregular.
I am also reliably informed that Sophias has offered to return half of the purchase price on condition that the new owner does not blow the whistle.
She did not. All she has been trying to do was to set herself up legally, register legally as self employed, and pay her social security and taxes.
For this she is being accused of causing trouble for Sophias.
Wow. What a mess.
Just wanted to say that we both believe that Roger has done the correct thing here - and it would be nice if more people came online to show their support, rather than remaining silent on the sidelines. It must be extremely wearing for him to be constantly the butt of such accusations and abuse.
J
Oh - and a previous poster was correct: it's libel, not slander when written!
Have disagreed with roger on some things in the past but totally behind him on this.
Ray
The Mayor and the Town Council have a contract with Sophias signed in 2013. What I cannot understand is why has it taken 4 years for the Council (Roger) to find out all these alleged irregularities. The Mayor and Town Council are the landlords why have they not been checking the place on a regular basis. If departments and officials are working illegally it is right that they are stopped. I blame the Mayor and the Town Council for allowing it. THEY ARE THE OWNERS AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN CHECKING THAT SOPHIAS WAS ADHERING TO THE CONTRACT.
All I can see is the place closing at a loss to the residents of Arboleas. A great shame.
"We are now trying to control whether people put stone cladding on their walls without a licence"
Just a one word question.......WHY?
Quote from: SunnyJim on August 16, 2017, 15:23:10 PM
"We are now trying to control whether people put stone cladding on their walls without a licence"
Just a one word question.......WHY?
El presidente is right......fee required to get licence to improve any aspect of your property that is a permanent fixture. Then increased IBI (potentially).
This topic has caused a lot of discussion.
I have received a lot of criticism, although I have received a lot of support from people who will not post on the forum.
Some people have posted that this should have been kept confidential in the Town Hall.
I do not agree. This is a public issue, of public interest.
Secrecy breeds corruption.
There are FOUR core issues,
FIRST
Sophias has been sub letting rooms in the public building, for private profit and without authority.
Why is it wrong to expose this?
SECOND
Following pressure from me, the Council legal officer has required Sophias to keep to the contract they signed 4 years ago.
They are required to seek permission for all activities other than the gymnasium. The fact that they have not done so in the past 4 years is their fault, although also the fault of the Town Hall for not monitoring the situation correctly.
THIRD
The Council has now informed Sophias that any activity must be carried out by correctly qualified people, and that these qualifications must be registered with the Town Hall.
Why am I wrong to inform the public, and the workers in Sophias, about this requirement?
___________________________________________________________________________
FOUR
This is an important issue which concerns all Arboleas residents, and about which I feel strongly, and is one of the reasons I have worked for the people of Arboleas for the past 10 years.
We have a strong community in Arboleas, but it should be more integrated.
It is less integrated now than it was 15 years ago.
This is an important issue which must be addressed, and which the Town Hall is not giving sufficient attention to.
We have a community building which should be available for the whole community, for activities which bring the whole community together.
Instead it has been given to a private company to be used exclusively by their clients.
To make the matter worse it is a British company catering almost exclusively for the British community.
We were promised that there would be Spanish employees, but there are none.
The Spanish say that this is just for the British, not for them.
This is WRONG.
Activities take place at times which are not suitable for many Spanish.
In fact it is clear that there is no desire to use this facility to help to integrate the community.
It is run for private gain.
This is not an acceptable use of a public asset. I have argued this for two years within the Town Hall.
Now I consider it to be my democratic duty to bring my concerns to the public.
Roger, I think it is very sad that your last paragraph says what it does, that you have had no support from the town hall during the two years you have been discussing this, given that there are only three english councillors on board, why is there such apathy from the spanish town hall councillors - is it they the spanish who dont want to integrate with the foreign element here, it just seems so strange to read that they are not supporting you to bring the village together. It would be nice if the Mayor would make a comment after all he is the overall leader of the village.
Roger, you are totally correct in your view and they way you are conducting this issue.
For whatever reason people these days don't have the guts to make a stance because they prefer to be popular with everyone so I totally commend your actions.
However like many on this forum, although a Spanish tax resident, I no longer live in the area.
Indeed it seems many forum members dont even live in Spain so perhaps like me, they think to comment is out of their remit.
Just my opinion......if Sophia's have been illegally subletting, taking money for rent that equals the amount they pay the town hall, been deceitful with their explanation of the above, lied about activities taking place in a public building, no longer have an in date contract...WHY are they still there, why are you even considering renewing their contract? They have had it good for so long and no doubt would have continued doing everything they shouldn't, had they not been discovered doing it.
I know Ray Daniels from Mojacar, ex Hull footballer, qualified sports physio, treated me for some 6 months when I had a nasty break in his place in Mojacar, he was working out of Sophia's at one time and if memory serves me right I believe he was paying rent, how do I know this? Because he called me to ask if I thought he would get sufficient business to warrant his payment, so how many more outside of Sophia's has been paying rent?
Sounds to me like it should be once bitten, twice shy?
Mudget
As an outsider, looking in, this post has a whole range of valid arguments and observations........ As well as the "slaughtering" of individuals, which I find to be quite SAD :sign0065:
Bottom line IMOH.............
Town Hall should have "regulated" and "enforced" their contract - irrespective of what is being said, if these are Public Premises, the Town Hall had a "duty of care" which they have not been checking or enforcing.......
Roger seems to be a single voice in this respect and has not been "heard" for reasons unknown - as above, in my opinión, politics play a big part !!!
It is also clear that a local business with a number of "employees", now have to demonstrate their qualifications - in my mind, this is IMPERATIVE in the industry mentioned....... however, if no guidance has been given and no checks have been made, is there any blame ???????
We all know that things are different in this part of Spain and can all be guilty of complacency...... but, when challenged, we should all rise to the challenge and demonstrate that we can do things right in whatever "arena" we are operating in ????
Could this whole situation therefore be an opportunity to get things right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
:104: :104: :104:
MAYBE DAFT BUT I AM FOREVER THE OPTIMIST XXX
I'm amazed this is being discussed on an open forum. I have never been to Sophie's and don't know the owners but I can spot character assassination when I see it. Ever heard of breach of confidentiality Roger?
Can you explain why you think Roger has a duty of confidentiality in this case.
As I understand it character assassination is when some one has done nothing wrong and are criticised. In this case Sophies are in the wrong.
Nibbler
I think that this thread has gone past it´s initial intention. Supposition statements are unfair to both parties. Only those involved know the truth. So it is time to close the thread.