Some Hard Truths about Illegal Homes

[digifidd]

Good question Babyboomer.  We cannot live in our house due to no electricity (cut off by developer) and developers proximity to our house - he and his family live within 200 metres of our place.  Not that I would want to live there now - our dream has been tarnished to such a degree and our kids are happy back in the UK.

But what happens if we are called up by the court?  If the Ecologists have denounced our "development", shouldn't we have been told by now?  If the ecologists denounced the building in 2006?!

This is another frustration with Spain, the total lack of communication or inability to get straight forward answers.

As Kendo has said, the Spanish processes are "as slow as molasses" (wasn't that the phrase?).

[Babyboomer]

We were visited by them, as per my original post.  If they can´t phone you they will visit you.  If you ignore the summons you can be locked up (from my solicitor).

Just hope I am in if they call. I wonder what they do for non-resident owners?

[andie]

the problem is,ignorance is no deffence in law,here or uk,papers or no papers, coned or otherwise ,which is why its is better to try and sort the sutuation legally  by belonging & suporting  an officaly recognised body,that the powers that be will talk to. (no offence intended ) S

[beemer]

Thanks for the clarification.
I think the explanatory  posting you made should have been your first one .
Then most people could have understood what you were intending to say.
I would expect that most of the people will have ample documentation,similar to yourself, to prove their position in this shabby situation .
The more cases tested in court will prove without doubt who are the true wrongdoers.
When justice prevails we can all  ,as the saying goes, get a life, which i think was why we came in the first place.

A happy new year to all.

[juliemac]

Thank you Kendo for sharing with us your experiences.

[kendo]

We were visited by them, as per my original post.  If they can´t phone you they will visit you.  If you ignore the summons you can be locked up (from my solicitor).

[Babyboomer]

Kendo, Thanks for the information. Very helpful and clears the situation in my view. I don't think Beemer intended to question your integrity more a case of mis-reading his intended request for further information which is "prying into your privacy". Certainly wasn't my intention, hence my questions were more general and not specific to your situation.
How did the Guardia get your telephone number? As I am sure I have never put it on any "registration or enrolment" (padron, nie, residencia, health registration, utilities etc) Did they use an NIE against mobile phone registration I wonder?

[kendo]

The Guardia phoned us and asked us to call into the station.  We were presented with the summons which we had to sign for.  We were given about 7 weeks notice before we had to appear in the courts at Huercal Overa. We engaged a solicitor (out of town) and he engaged a barrister for us (or the Spanish equivalent of).  Seven weeks of stress and sleepless nights later we appeared at the courts.  There was a court appointed translator for us.  You go in individually, myself, other half and builder.  The judge asks you questions about when you bought, when you moved in, whether you have mains electricity and water etc, etc, etc.  

I believe the judge was aware of the situation of all the illegal houses, but it was still very unnerving.  We were very fortunate in that we had a huge amount of documentation, which shows we were defrauded by builder and solicitor alike.

We have escritura for our land, but not our house, I have contracts for services.  My house is in Albox.

I don´t find the questions impertinent, I do find it slightly insulting that you seem to be questioning my integrity, I sincerely hope that wasn´t your intention.

[beemer]

Kendo  
 Firstly I must apologise  if the poor punctuation caused you difficulty in reading my post, I will attempt to type slowly and accurately in future.
I agree with all the questions outlined by Babyboomer,and eagerly await your comments in response to them.
I would also ask whether you have a certificate of first habitation? contracts for connections to water and electricity?
Have you an escritura for the property?
What is the location of the property?
It may seem impertinent to ask these questions,however,you made the initial posting on this subject,and readers need facts to make  balanced judgements .

[juliemac]

´Ecologists en Accion´ site for Albox, it says there are 2,000 properties which have been denounced in 14 areas Aljambra, Cerro Bolea, Barrio de las Zorras, Los Patricios, Llano Olleres, Fuente del Mojón, Locaiba, La Hortichuela, Las Labores, Los Guillenes, Rambla del Saliente, Las Pocicas, Los Marcelinos y El Santuario.

Hi anyone out there know how to find out if a property has been denounced???????? any info would be a great help.
juliemac  

[Babyboomer]

As for my court case, my solicitor from Murcia has put a motion to the courts that the case against us be dismissed.  We have yet to hear the outcome of this action.  I apologise if you found my ´rant´boring, I thought it made some rather important points !!!

Kendo, Welcome to the forum and thank you for your post and the information you provided. I do wish you well and hope you will update your post as you have further "news" as things develop.

If you can spare the time it would be helpful to hear more from you regarding
a) How you became aware of the court case against you - was a "warrant" issued for your attendance, how was it passed to you?
b) How much notice you had before the court appearance?
c) The actual court appearance, what happened, did the court appoint a translator for you? What did you have to do/say?

[kendo]

Hi to you beemer, had difficulty reading your post, a little punctuation would be most welcome.

There are associations you can join, I am not here to advocate any of them.  There is a march going on which you can also join.

As for my court case, my solicitor from Murcia has put a motion to the courts that the case against us be dismissed.  We have yet to hear the outcome of this action.  I apologise if you found my ´rant´boring, I thought it made some rather important points !!!

There are quite a few people I know who have been called to court.  People find it embarrassing, so tend not to talk about it, but it is happening.

[digifidd]

Hi Kendo and welcome,

I can appreciate your frustration, anger, despair at the injustice of the situation.  The stress of being taken to court must have been immense.

I know the owner of one of the houses shown on one of the "Ecologista" links and unfortunately they were (may be still are) one of the ostriches who chose to believe the lies of our Spanish promoter/neighbour rather than listen to the facts that we had found out, before we came back to the UK.  The attitude was, "it wont be my problem after I'm gone!! ".  They obviously love their kids so much that they would let them go through this stressful situation.  Also, it was a case of fingers in the ears going la,la,la when we told them what we had found out.  Plus, the message was 'dont rock the boat!'  We did and were effectively ostracised for it.  There is nothing like Brit solidarity....no, nothing at all!!!

Their house isn't too far from mine and we have known for almost 2 and a half years how illegal our house is (wrong type of land - rustica, although our catastral ref says otherwise, no permissions or licenses).  Shame our lawyers, bank managers and notary failed to tell us how illegal it was before we signed and were given a mortgage.  Which we are still paying.

However, we have done the dutiful thing and put in our Proyme form and wait (with not much hope) that it will be sorted to our satisfaction!

Luckily our contract doesn't say that we are the promotor (as far as I know) and I would SO like our Spanish developer to get the call up from the courts that he deserves.  Whether it will happen, I very much doubt, it is far easier for the Spanish to blame everything on the Brits than to take responsibility for their own corruption.

I see the usual I'm alright Jack's have already attacked your post.  No surprise there.  They wouldn't be so damning if they were in our position.  They would probably be amongst the first to say how unjust and immoral the situation is.  How come they cant empathise or sympathise is beyond me!!

Happy New Year to everyone who has an illegal house and to those who don't too.  I hope those of us who do, can get justice in 2009.

[andie]

" if the sh>t hits the fan its all going to be passed to the hacienda then well see some fireworks."

i dont think you will need to
i think it already has,
"the opening of Pandores financial box,"the devil really  will be ,well and truley in the detail on that one ,legal or illegal (for buyer & seller ) S

[beemer]

hiya kendo    what are the things that people can do  you say you were called into court   what happened then,you say its happened to you so what was /is the outcome or is this just another boring rant with no conclusion .the only people who are to blame for the alleged problems are the spanish officials who chose to cast a blind eye over what was happening and are now trying to pull the wool over everyones eyes with inspections and surveys and any attempt to shift the problem to anyone but themselves.Our own builder promotor has given me so many excuses,reasons why we cant have an escritura that the smell of his  bullsh:t is stronger than the smell of all the wood fires that are around at the moment.The blame of all the problems is fair and squarely down to the spanish systems and dont let anyone try say its anyone else   we didnt come here and hold a gun to someones head and say build me an illegal property .I think the spanish  mind set thinks that we british people are similar to the apparently  corrupt mentality of some of the  the spanish.How many of you reading this have been asked to pay cash for services !!!!.  Ive paid over  50k euros cash for jobs but ive managed to link it to receipts  and bank withdrawals ,also pictures of the workmen  working(how dumb is that) in progress ,and if the sh>t hits the fan its all going to be passed to the hacienda   then well see some fireworks.



edited for incorrect spelling

[kendo]

To knowall - it would appear the ecologists are listened to, I was forced to appear in court as a defendant as a result of a denuncia by the ecologists in action, they have made thousands of denuncias and they are being actioned.  The hotel is also the subject of a court case, only they have quite a lot of money to fight it.

Thank you to farmer and senior villain.

I am not a political activist, I just want my house to be legal, the way my solicitor and builder said it would be, but there are forces working against that.  It was about time for someone to tell some unpleasant truths.  The facts are on the web site of the ´ecologistas en accion´ website.  They speak for themselves.

To geno - there comes a time when you have to say ´enough is enough´.  There are things you can do, but that is your choice.  As for the sand, about 95 % of illegal home owners seem to have their own sand pits !!!  The inspectors are going to get some great pictures of houses with ostrich butts in them.

[Senior Villain]

Hi Kendo,

I am personaly pleased you took the time to inform us of your problem in your post, I hope all goes well for you, and i would like to add my welcome to the site and hope your not put off by negative posts.  :hat

Ian

[Geno]

Hello Kendo

Not an easy posting to make -I am not in any way a political activist type, I am a retired person who came here to live a quiet self sufficient life but have regrettably had to admit that I, and a lot of friends I have made here, have been lied to and deceived with not a hope of our homes being recognised as anything but illegal, irrespective of what paperwork we obtain.
I don't believe there is any sincere will to tackle this injustice so I applaud your posting and if people can find a good depth of sand in which to place their heads then let me know and I'll join them.

[farmer]

Ho Hum,

did someone not get what they wanted from santa or something? What is it with the cliche'd "Get a life" Phrase here? So many people are being the target of it, that it's becoming a tad tedious. When someone joins the forum, they seem to immediately be accused of having an ulterior motive. Can we play a little nicer please? Kendo may have some valid points and he should be thanked for sharing them. I will start the ball rolling by saying Welcome Kendo, thank you, nd look forward to reading your posts in the future.

Rant over,

Martin

[knowall]

Here is (one of the) Ecologistas en acción webpages for El Hotel de El Algarrobico.

//http://www.ecologistasenaccion.org/spip.php?article2799

Since when has anyone been taking much notice of what they say?
When the Hotel Algarrobico gets demolished . . .  

Edit: Incorrect link

[Devon Don]

it's good to have a little bit of consistency in your life. the subject hasn't changed, just questioning the motive behind it  

[kendo]

sad, ain't it, when your very first post on a community forum is so politically motivated :rules

I fail to see how my post is politically motivated, I am merely relaying some infomation I think people need to know.  And having checked up on your posts, it seems that you have a penchance for changing the subject of threads.  Wonder why that is ?

[Devon Don]

sad, ain't it, when your very first post on a community forum is so politically motivated  :rules

[andie]

a very worrying read ,also a point to note,is that the whole area,is beeing brought to its knees economicaly,effecting all nationatily.
people in the uk will still buy here,if its 110 % legal (as long as the price reflects market condtions )
lets hope for everbody sake for some posative news in 2009
steve

[kendo]

OK, I have had enough of the ´ I´m alright jack´ and the ´everything will sort itself out´, oh and especially the ´let someone else do it´ brigade.

Here come the nasty facts about the illegal houses no-one is telling you about.

My house was visited by Seprona (the environmental arm of the Guardia Civil) in December 2006 (long before any campaigning organisatons were known about).  It had been denounced by the environmental group ´Ecologists en Accion´.  We were called into court a few weeks ago to defend ourselves against a charge of building an illegal house.

Now I hear you saying ´Oh shame, glad its not me´.  Well the chances are very high (unless you are in Arboleas, where they are not so high) that it is you.  
Here is a link to the ´Ecologists en Accion´ site for Albox, it says there are 2,000 properties which have been denounced in 14 areas Aljambra, Cerro Bolea, Barrio de las Zorras, Los Patricios, Llano Olleres, Fuente del Mojón, Locaiba, La Hortichuela, Las Labores, Los Guillenes, Rambla del Saliente, Las Pocicas, Los Marcelinos y El Santuario.
https://www.ecologistasenaccion.org/spi ... rticle5313

Here is a link to the ´Ecologists en Accion´ site for Zurgena, it says there are 1,000 properties which have been denounced in 5 areas, Los Carasoles, Cucador, los Menchones, Los Llanos del Peral y La Alfoquía.
http://www.ecologistasenaccion.org/spip.php?article5545

Here is a link to the ´Ecologists en Accion´ site for Zurgena, it says there are properties which have been denounced in 10 areas  Paraje los Carmenes, Rambla Arquillo, nuevas construcciones junto al cementerio de Partaloa, Paraje los Campillos, nuevo núcleo de población dirección Cerro Gordo , Lomo del Algarrobo, 2 nuevos núcleos existentes al margen izquierdo de la Rambla de Lentisco, la Piedra Amarilla y el Cerro Gordo
http://www.ecologistasenaccion.org/spip.php?article5545

Here is a link to the ´Ecologists en Accion´ site for Arboleas, it says there are properties which have been denounced in 7 areas, Los Carrascos, Los Garcías, La Perla, El Germán, Los Llanos de Arboleas, Limaria y Los Higuerales.
http://www.ecologistasenaccion.org/spip.php?article5969

And so on it goes.  A denuncia is a complaint which the Guardia cannot ignore, it must be acted upon.  In many cases you will not have been visited by the Guardia as the denuncia covers a whole estate.  You may not even know there is a court case against you until you are actually called into court, but you will be called.  As many people have contracts citing them as the promotors, you will be held responsible for building an illegal house.  Take heart as it is your first offence they will probably not jail you (although the offence does carry a jail term), you will probably just receive a hefty fine.

If you want to know why you haven´t heard anything yet, the Spanish Judicial system is as slow as molasses, and they have been on strike !!!

Oh, and wait, it just gets better.  Your house is not only in judicial proceedings, the chances are very good that it is also in administrative proceedings, now these fines are really high.

So all you ostriches out there, and those of you who think your developer will ´sort it all out´, take note, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - IGNORE AT YOUR PERIL.