After spending several years holidaying with friends in Oria, we are now planning to move out to the Arboleas area. Any constructive advice from forum members would deb greatly appreciated. We have been rigorously researching both legal and financial matters but, we're aware that there is no substitute for local knowledge and helpful guidance from people who have 'been there' and 'done that'. Any proactive guidance will be gratefully accepted. Thanks G & P
Go to the townhall and check any property you see and think about buying is fully legal. Or rent until Inn 14 has been settled and see how many properties come onto the market then. Be aware you'll need to use a car for most trips out although the village can be walking distance from various areas now it is very hot it is not so nice walking. In the 12 years we have been here the area has lots more to offer.
Hi
The advise you have been given is totally correct, I have a house in Oria which is TOTALLY legal which I am selling, would you be interested? One thing for sure is you will not be robbed. If I were you, I would not use any of the estate agents in the entire area, they ALL think it is not necessary to communicate with the seller of the property, I have spoken to many residents who have experience of buying and selling and not one person has recommended any of them! Not one has a good word for any of the estate agents from Almeria to Murcia, they all made the same complaints about the estate agents: they tell you the house is wonderful, 3 months later tell you you have to reduce the price, they NEVER ever provide feedback - I meant updates, they do not send any prospective buyers because they are waiting to get the seller to give it away, they advertise really cheap properties on Rightmove and of course when the unsuspecting contact them they contact the sellers and advise they reduce the price because they know they have few villas for 100,000 euro. If you look on Rightmove you will note properties and often many of them have been sold, they have been left on Rightmove to generate un-suspecting buyers. If a seller is not prepared to or less than 100.000 euro they will do nothing to find a buyer for you. Many of the estate agents are selling illegal properties which of course they deny, I would watch the estate agents and which lawyers they advise you to use! I have been horrified by some of the stories I have been told, my advise - BUY direct from the sellers it will save YOU the estate agent fee as mentioned some are charging the seller 6% which actually costs the buyer, my understanding is that estate agents should charge 3%, that is supposed to be the law, they all moan about the Spanish laws yet they break them daily. I have heard about agents who take the deposit from the buyer and the seller does not see it or has to fight for it especially if the buyer withdraws when he has learned the title deeds are in-accurate. A Spanish solicitor will charge you 1500 euro, to make a call or send an email to the land registry office, I would investigate who a Gestor reports to, the solicitors are supposed to be accountable but hey has anyone heard of a solicitor been struck off in Spain! I do not know how many of these people sleep!
The answer in one word........DON'T
Once again el stringo you are being totally negative.
There is nothing wrong in buying here. Just make sure that you have all the legalities in place. Check with the relevant town hall before handing over any deposit. Get it in writing from them that the house is legal. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
If you want to buy and have a 100% legal house for the future, now is the time to wake up, your dreaming because it won't happen. :head
How can you say such a thing? When most houses ARE legal. It is about time that those making such statements start backing them up with solid proof that a house bought now will not be 100% legal.
OK,
Quote from: felipe on July 20, 2015, 09:20:44 AM
How can you say such a thing? When most houses ARE legal. It is about time that those making such statements start backing them up with solid proof that a house bought now will not be 100% legal.
Ok but this has been our experience of buying, well not buying !! We have seen many houses that were bought in the last few years and they did everything they could to ensure all paperwork was correct. Now they are trying to sell and been told it isn't, laws change, solicitors look into things more, etc. I'm not saying they never will be legal, but as mentioned many times , a 100% legal house now and in the future is very rare.
The only time all this is checked is when your selling, so most owners could be surprised.
I agree wholeheartedly Phil.
Why do some people get their kicks from running down the area and putting off genuine people who want to make a life in this beautiful part of the World?
I just feel so sorry for those who want, or have, to sell for whatever reason, when we have such doom and gloom merchants about.
Gary and Paul, please ignore them, but do do your homework as Phil suggests, and enjoy.
Best wishes. Paul
Where are ALL these houses you looked at? I am not aware of any recent law changes so please tell us which laws have changed so that those wishing to sell can double check that they are indeed legal.
Personal experience is not doom and gloom, just reality. There must be other members who have gone through the process of looking and buying and found it very straightforward.
A forum is for opinions and experiences , so that others can make decisions. Enough people have made mistakes buying in Spain.
I agree with that. But where is the proof? What areas are you talking about? What are the law changes? Opinion is one thing but opinions need to be backed up with some facts.
legal house. basic start.( off the top of mi head )
public registered deed for the land wich matches the castrol size & ref number
public registered deed for the house wich matches the castrol size number
urban segrigation licence with taxes paid.
all building licenses ie,house,pool,outbuildingand to include the end of works certificate.
certificate from the town hall....stating that they know of no outstanding issues known to the town hall
in date nota simple & plus bank & tax embargo & ownership search
electric & water connection certificates ( bollatine )
town hall issued Hab cert.
:tiphat:
Tetley, if that makes a purchase 100% legal, it is the best reply I've seen on here regarding house purchases. :clap: :clap: :clap:
But until buyers know this and make sure their solicitors get all this, there will still be things missed.
Not sure it makes 100 % legal as im doing it by memory between headlamps & mains water pipes,but it would be the min i would want to see,before i even bothered with any form of 1e down deposits.
:tiphat:
Quote from: felipe on July 20, 2015, 06:22:13 AM
Once again el stringo you are being totally negative.
There is nothing wrong in buying here. Just make sure that you have all the legalities in place. Check with the relevant town hall before handing over any deposit. Get it in writing from them that the house is legal. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
[/quote
i strongly object to the expression "onca again". I have regularly defended the lifestyle here. With more than 9 years behind me now I have encountered both the good and the bad aspects of life in Arboleas and would encourage would be purchasers to think long and hard before making such an important decision. There is far more to consider than just the housing situation. Look forward to the time when you are unable to drive and see how isolated you could becomewith the lack of decent public transport. Consider the likelihood of illness, heaven forbid, but it comes to many in time. The prospect of a stay in hospital, not just Huercal Overa, but possibly Granada, with a partner having to spend day after day in a bedside chair with no bed for themselves. Interpreters' fees. That's not being negative, it is the harsh reality of life here. Incompetent officialdom, eg: a bank account embargoed more than 4 years after an event for which an invoice was never issued. There is a whole package to consider, not just the housing situation, and I wouls recommend life in one of the more advanced regions well ahead of Arboleas/Almeria.
Stringo it looks to me like,you understand the job through living it :tiphat: ,Spains a great country,but at any age,been away from a system/ mother country that a person understands can be a task,my advice to anybody is give it a go,but also take note of the ones that have done and are doing and pick the weat from the chaff and the negative from the posative as my old apprentice training manger used to say.
:)
You are 100% correct Stringo in your assessment of things people need to seriously consider before moving to the Arboleaa area, but that is just as valid for anyone moving from their Mother Country.
Your post did sound negative in terms of buying here (specifically), when your subsequent addition would have given a more cautionary view of coming to live abroad in general.
From my experience, one negative comment while I was buying, turned out to be the most positive comment I could have listened to and it saved me a fortune. So some, seemingly negative comments, often turn out very positive. You have to listen to "ALL" the answers when you ask a question and there are some very valid comments on here, from some very experienced people. :tiphat:
I agree Webe, there is a lot of sound cautionary advice given on here which people would do well to heed.
However, when the doom and gloom merchants (sorry, realists) get going, it's enough to put anybody from coming within 100 miles of here. I know had I been reading this forum before I bought I doubt very much if I'd have done so.
To be fair to everybody........ i think the world and the EU has moved on in the past 15 years,i would think with hine sight,very few would have left the UK if they had known how the EU & World would have rolled on to its present state of implosion.
if i owned a nice leafy 200k semi in the UK i would think very very hard in letting it go,for 3 months of un controlled heat,but a wonderfull x mass day in the sun.....in any country
its a funny old game......i actually enjoy the UK cold now and working outside all yorkshire togged up in plus 4 deg
:)
With hindsight Tets, I'd have left the UK five years earlier than I did - five years less of the political PC b****x I used to have to endure on a daily basis. :tiphat:
I agree Byrney, I would have moved here earlier if I could have. Looking back I wish I had done so. Best decision of our lives. Apart from getting married of course :)
All must be listened to with regard to knowledge gained from experience, however things get cloudy when comments are made based upon personal anger, although understandable, from people who have had or indeeed still are sufferring bad experiences. But, they are in the minority as most people are very happy they made the move when they did or has has been said wished they had done it earlier. This post is based upon knowledge gained from my experience.
As a new member and making my first post I have to say I find this forum very informative and interesting. The positive and negative comments are very helpful.
I am retiring early next year and we hope to head to Spain to enjoy the climate and relaxed lifestyle. I have found the discussions on rent vs buy really helpful and although we would love to buy I think we are leaning towards renting for a while. There are some beautiful properties around and buying is still very tempting.
Very much looking forward to visiting Arboleas in September and seeing whats on offer.
Good luck to the original posters. Hope you find what you are looking for.
Gordon
Can I also ask if anyone would recommend Coles Estate Agent?
Gordon if your buying, there are lots of estate agents that are OK, your solicitor is far more important.
Spot on Phillip. Why have Estate Agents suddenly become the key to a legal property? Strange.
We've looked at numerous properties, if you see 1 you like on the internet,etc, view it with whichever agent has it. Remember where it is, and try to find the owner, most will probably try to save estate agents fees and do a deal !! They are not needed.
Thanks.... I suppose that would work with an agent that's trying to rent out property too. Save the finders fee?
Quote from: PhillipJLloyd on July 24, 2015, 22:14:28 PM
We've looked at numerous properties, if you see 1 you like on the internet,etc, view it with whichever agent has it. Remember where it is, and try to find the owner, most will probably try to save estate agents fees and do a deal !! They are not needed.
If someone views a property with an agent, and then goes on to buy "privately" in a separate deal with the seller, the agent will probably sue the seller - successfully - for their commission as the initial introduction was through their agency.
:lol: are you an estate agent Karen4
Don't be silly! However it is true that if an agent introduces a buyer to you as a seller, and the seller then does a private deal with the buyer, the agent is still entitled to their commission, so be careful when selling!
Think you'll find an agent won't put your place on the market without you signing yourself into the deal, even if he doesn't introduce a buyer. Unless of course you sort your own contract. :tiphat:
Is it true that there are some "Estate Agents" who are not really "Estate Agents" but who simply offer houses for sale which are on the real "Estate Agent's" books, and subsequently get a "cut" of the Agent's fee for the sale?
And, if so, doesn't that somehow muddy the water between the "Estate Agent" and their client?
Or, is this all yet another Urban myth?
Estate agents fees are now usually 3% plus, this is over 5000 euros inc. IVA on a 150K villa. How is this justified, and you can't blame sellers in trying to avoid this.
Its been said many times, buying and selling houses in Spain has ridiculous costs involved.
Just out of intrest.........
what paperwork do you now need to market a home,so that the Agent can legally market the property ?
:tiphat: :tiphat:
I don't think it's up to the Estate Agent to ensure the legality of a property. If they did that what on earth do Solicitors do for their money? :whistle:
Quote from: byrney on July 26, 2015, 11:52:17 AM
I don't think it's up to the Estate Agent to ensure the legality of a property. If they did that what on earth do Solicitors do for their money? :whistle:
bryns
the law got changed a couple of years ago.... were the home MUST have certain paperwork to be marketed...befor it even gets to the lawyer stage,hence my question ,what do folks now need to put the hoose on an agents books ?
:tiphat:
Lots of good information on the Coles website for resale and buyers.
I didn't know it was a Law change Tets. Interesting.
So, how does a non-legally qualified Estate Agent know that the documents he's been presented with (whatever they may be) are legally valid? Genuine question.
This post has been running since July 12th and not 1 agent has made a comment, about says it all !!
If I was an Estate Agent, I also wouldn't comment on this topic.
An Estate Agent is an Estate Agent who sells property.
A Solicitor is a Solicitor who advises on the legality of properties.
Just like in the UK.
Just that in Spain not many are any good at it, hence the constant calls for caution :tiphat:
Quote from: byrney on July 26, 2015, 14:52:55 PM
I didn't know it was a Law change Tets. Interesting.
So, how does a non-legally qualified Estate Agent know that the documents he's been presented with (whatever they may be) are legally valid? Genuine question.
by memory.....a couple of years back ( or more ) thay brought in a law making it illigal for an Agent to put a house on the books without the correct papers,my friend has just sold,cost them over 2k to get the papers in place so the agents could take it on,ie hab cert,energy report,pool licences and
architect plan.
it was a government initiative to clean up Spains building image,there was a bit of a press bang as well with the Spanish Ambasidor on UK telly telling everybody its all very safe to buy now......followed by a few top notch homes in the sun London exebitions.
:tiphat:
Hey mate, tell yer lad to get off that legal course. He's in the wrong job.
The smart money is clearly with the Estate Agents.........
Quote from: byrney on July 26, 2015, 20:48:01 PM
Hey mate, tell yer lad to get off that legal course. He's in the wrong job.
The smart money is clearly with the Estate Agents.........
Na bryns the smart money is in Polatics.......wi all these socalist public waged millioners worldwide..............leave poor old EA,s standing for crumbs off the table.....
start off wi a public funded fiver here and a public tenner there..... 20 years later bosh ! dinero dinero & the Andrew Neil show ! ;)
plus if yer really handy..... yer can get a free bird table wi owt doing 6 months in the big hoose for fiddle moneying......on the X,s
dont forgett ti vote as every little helps !..... :lol:
So shove him into Politics then. Easy money, and an honarary Lordship for you methinks - Lord Tetley of Hull and Arboleas. Has quite a ring to it eh?
Make sure they don't catch you with that white stuff though, or them "Ladies" down at Bouganvillas. ;)
Quote from: byrney on July 26, 2015, 22:19:56 PM
So shove him into Politics then. Easy money, and an honarary Lordship for you methinks - Lord Tetley of Hull and Arboleas. Has quite a ring to it eh?
Make sure they don't catch you with that white stuff though, or them "Ladies" down at Bouganvillas. ;)
bryns the only white stuff ive ever been covered in.... is fine cast plaster/white cement,and yer deffinatly carnt put it up yer hooter.... coz it sets.. ;D
I haven't read through all the responses - but I'd just like to add my own views. If I were a prospective buyer - I would first of all rent somewhere - I know
rent is looked at a 'dead money' - but it could save you a lot of heartache in the future. :drinks: Live out here for at least 6 months - then you can find out the best place to live. Arboleas is a brilliant place - lots going on and some super properties at good prices. But I still think new buyers should put on the reins (we all suffer from not wanting to wait for our dream home!!!) - rent a place - take your time - and then you'll find that dream home. Good luck in your quest. :romance:
HiGary and Paul,I'm selling a beautiful well kept Lakes Vega villa in Arboleas that we have had for 10 years approx 1 mile from village it is fully maintained and you can move in straight away with nothing to do.email me if you are interested Taffy
Quote from: JonDee on July 19, 2015, 17:26:21 PM
Hi
The advise you have been given is totally correct, I have a house in Oria which is TOTALLY legal which I am selling, would you be interested? One thing for sure is you will not be robbed. If I were you, I would not use any of the estate agents in the entire area, they ALL think it is not necessary to communicate with the seller of the property, I have spoken to many residents who have experience of buying and selling and not one person has recommended any of them! Not one has a good word for any of the estate agents from Almeria to Murcia, they all made the same complaints about the estate agents: they tell you the house is wonderful, 3 months later tell you you have to reduce the price, they NEVER ever provide feedback - I meant updates, they do not send any prospective buyers because they are waiting to get the seller to give it away, they advertise really cheap properties on Rightmove and of course when the unsuspecting contact them they contact the sellers and advise they reduce the price because they know they have few villas for 100,000 euro. If you look on Rightmove you will note properties and often many of them have been sold, they have been left on Rightmove to generate un-suspecting buyers. If a seller is not prepared to or less than 100.000 euro they will do nothing to find a buyer for you. Many of the estate agents are selling illegal properties which of course they deny, I would watch the estate agents and which lawyers they advise you to use! I have been horrified by some of the stories I have been told, my advise - BUY direct from the sellers it will save YOU the estate agent fee as mentioned some are charging the seller 6% which actually costs the buyer, my understanding is that estate agents should charge 3%, that is supposed to be the law, they all moan about the Spanish laws yet they break them daily. I have heard about agents who take the deposit from the buyer and the seller does not see it or has to fight for it especially if the buyer withdraws when he has learned the title deeds are in-accurate. A Spanish solicitor will charge you 1500 euro, to make a call or send an email to the land registry office, I would investigate who a Gestor reports to, the solicitors are supposed to be accountable but hey has anyone heard of a solicitor been struck off in Spain! I do not know how many of these people sleep!
A year ago we bought our house in Arboleas through estate agent Nicla Casas in Vera. He has a large choice of houses and to my experience he is very competent and reliable. Claus Van Mierlo speaks very well English , Spanish and Duthc.
Some seven months ago I began this post. Many of you posted pro's and con's regarding buying a property in Spain. The 'do your homework' suggestions were certainly taken literally and all avenues of legal and financial were explored. To close this post, I can confirm that we are now living in Arboleas and, enjoying our retirement. G&P
Quote from: GaryandPaul on March 05, 2016, 15:55:16 PM
Some seven months ago I began this post. Many of you posted pro's and con's regarding buying a property in Spain. The 'do your homework' suggestions were certainly taken literally and all avenues of legal and financial were explored. To close this post, I can confirm that we are now living in Arboleas and, enjoying our retirement. G&P
Well done,let us now hope our british tory cival war doesent ruin it for all on the 23 rd of june.
:tiphat: