neaterheaters

[moderatorA]

Cantabrian you have your response. This thread is now locked as it transpires that there is a form of dispute between certain posters and before it descends into another slanging match.

Thank you and Merry Christmas.

[TonyNeaterHeater]

Dear Arbeolas Comunity Forum People. I wasn't going to respond, but out of courtesy to one contributor, and out of exasperation with two I feel i have to. Bearing in mind I am talking to the decent people who are looking for information and not the "others".
Martin, I apologise. I did not mean what I said exactly. As I previously said inverters are the most economical way to convert kilowatts to heat. However, because they come at a price many of my (Fully qualified totally kosher) friend's customers need cheaper efficient heaters in guest bedrooms. When that is the case he chooses ours as they are efficient and affordable.
Mountaingoat's consumption figures are cut and pasted from our website, so we do not hide the fact that heating with electricity costs money, but they only tell part of the story. However, if you want to stay warm in the winter but only spend €120 per month I suggest you don't even consider electric heaters.
I have to take issue with anyone who says "1kilowatt is a kilowatt-they are the same". 6 years ago my wife and I tried to heat my son's 12sqm bedroom with a 900watt eco heater. It was useless. Even with it on full he was sitting there with a hoodie and gloves doing his homework. Luckily for us I was doing a job for a Norwegian neighbour of a friend. They had a BEHA heater in their lounge and it was impressive- but not available in Spain. I got hold of a couple and put a 1kilowatt heater in my son's bedroom. After half an hour it did something that the eco heater had never done - got the room warm. Then the thermostat started to control it by turning it off and on when required. My son now sits in the same room wearing a teeshirt, and the 1kw heater is consuming the (estimated) equivalent of about 750 watts/hour - if not less. So please let's stop all the nonsense about them all being the same. 1kw is indeed 1kw, but it is how it is used that matters.
We now come to my old friend The Dodfather - Dodman 1. His last post said that " Have you all noticed that no-one was praising "my" heaters on this site". Well Dodman 1, have you not noticed that there has indeed been high praise for Neater Heaters on this site? The person praising them was you! You have told the whole forum that you were able to turn the coldest room in your house - an uninsulated bathroom lined with tiles and filled with porcelain into a warm haven of 75 degrees farenheit with a small 600 watt neater heater costing €155! If I was to make those claims in an advertisment encouraging people to buy them I would be greeted with a great deal of scepticism. Yet you, my greatest critic, made those claims on my behalf in the form of a written complaint, which I answered courteously via email. Unfortunately, instead of having the intelligence and good grace to admit you were wrong, you started this chain to try and trash us. If I offended you by calling you a serial moaner and a truth twister I am delighted.
Happy Christmas to all the genuine Forum members out there. I will probably be at Iron Art Factory Outlet  in Antas to answer any questions towards the end of January at their "meet the experts fair".

[byrney]

We´ve used portable gas heating as our main source for the last seven years and never experienced black mould.

I think the trick is that during the day you should keep the house as well-ventilated as possible (subject to the weather) by keeping doors and windows open.

We use wall.mounted air con unites as a back-up or an open log fire for an extra glow.

We have friends and neighbours who have the computer-style mega electric heating systems and they continually complain about them, but maybe its because they can´t use them properly?

[The Sheriff ILLIA.]

David C, & Others,

Portable Gas Heaters only cause Black Mould if they are used incorrectly.

We have had several since we came out here 12 years  ago - we have had two properties - and never had a trace of Mould in either of them !!!!

[David C]

The simple answer repeated several times on the forum is that electric heating is a waste of a lot of money unless its heat pump heating [air con]

Portable gas heaters get you warm quickly and makes the house damp with the associated black mould

its simple

[mountaingoat]

Mountaingoat  His figures are essentially correct. But the way he explains how to use the heater is the equivalent of driving an economic car, but never taking it out of 1st gear. The manufacturer's figures would never match your consumption figures. you use heaters with thermostats and timers and on-off switches. Thus reducing your consumption.

I got these figures from the neataheat web site...

[alfie]

So, my living room is 32 sq mt with a ceiling height ranging from 4mt to 2mt. I have Spanish insulation [ie - none] What is the cheapest way of heating this space to 20c in the winter months, assuming a 5 year depreciation period on the heating equipment required?

[hartcjhart]

my head hurts 808

[Cielos]

In my experience all these "low cost" heaters are only economical when used in very small and fairly well insulated rooms

A Kilowatt is a kilowatt...

[cantabrian]

THE person selling them is not a spark ! you stick his 1kw heater on for one hour,and then it COOLS very quickly! put a similar oil filled one on and it COOLS much slower ! so more heat radiates from the latter ,they all use the same amount of power,as i have stated on a past post ,this was marketed about 35 yrs ago as swedish central heating in the uk, it was not successful  !!!

[dodman1]

HAS EVERYONE GOT THE POINT ABOUT THESE HEATERS.NOBODY HAS BEEN ON THE FORUM PRAISING THEM APART FROM TONY.NOTE I HAVE NOT RESORTED TO PERSONAL INSULTS .

[dodman1]

HAS EVERYONE GOT THE POINT ABOUT THESE HEATERS.NOBODY HAS BEEN ON THE FORUM PRAISING THEM APART FROM TONY.NUFF SAID,FROM THE SERIAL MOANING TRUTH TWISTER.

[martin]

Tony (Neater Heater)

I have to reply to your statement that you have made on information supplied by your friend ( is he a fully qualified air-con and refrigeration engineer? ) who installs inverter heat-pumps and would like to state that you have been miss-informed and it is not correct that they are not suitable for bedrooms etc and they are in fact more then suitable for heating bedrooms etc as chosen as a preferred method of heating by so many hotels and domestic clients etc.
In fact many modern inverter systems have night set back settings for bedroom applications with ultra quiet fan settings to allow for all night operation if required.
They are more expensive to buy and install but if sized and installed correctly they should give you up to 15 years or more of energy efficient usage which will more then offset the original installation costs against running costs and I will say that they will also cool a room as well as heat it to a more than comfortable temperature much quicker and use less energy then any electrical heater set at the same temperature.
At the end of the day it is down to personal choice as to which method of heating is chosen by a person but please do not make statements that are incorrect on other industries.



Kind regards

Martin           

[awaywiththefairies]

Firstly neaterheater you posting I find quite rude and, rather like the man who screams at you on the double glazed window tv advert frankly offputting, I would not buy a product off you. Politeness would get you much further.

Secondly my son - who being a student is quite short of money is using an oil filled radiator to heat his sitting room in the UK and is finding both efficient and warm - his weekly bill for the whole house is only £10.

I do have experience of your heaters in Spain, they provide a degree of background heating, but I stand by my statement that the only thing that gets warm is the wall behind.

[TonyNeaterHeater]

Dear Arboleas Community Forum People. I am Tony From Neater Heater. I don't normally go on these forums but a friend told me about the comments made by one of your members, dodman1. This gentleman bought a 600 watt neater heater for his bathroom and complained that it was not "fit for purpose" because it could only raise the temperature to 75 degrees farenheit!!! These are his figures in a written complaint, with a written answer, so all verifiable. Now if you all remember the good old days pre-celcius, 75 degrees farenheit is a warm summers day in the UK. He also  complained that on a mid setting of 22 degrees his neater heater ONLY raised the temperature to 18.5 degrees. This is 65 degrees farenheit, this is the temperature offices are calibrated to in the UK because it is the perfect ambient heat. I told him that at the time of writing I was sat very comfortably in a warm living room being heated by a state of the art biomass pellet heater that was set to 24 degrees and achieving 18 degrees. I informed Dodman 1 that it was remarkable that he was achieving the same figure from a 600 watt neater heater costing only €155. I most certainly did not say "What do you expect for €155" as he has sated. The man is obviously a serial moaner and his views on this forum should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Before you all ask, yes I have got Neater Heaters and am very happy with them, which is why I started selling them as you couldn't get them in Spain. But I still like a fire in the evening. But it is true, warmth in Spain in winter comes at a cost.
As for the other comments.
All fuel is expensive. Gas estuffas are possibly the cheapest, provided you aren't concerned about your health and black mold. But you can't get them to turn themselves on in the morning and you would have to be certifiable if you used them in the bedrooms.
Central heating is very expensive to install and pretty expensive to run, gas or oil, it's pretty much the same.
The cheapest electric option is probably a good inverter system, but the units are not cheap to buy and install and the way you should operate them means they are not suitable for bedrooms etc...(According to a friend who installs them)
If you choose electric heaters there is a vast variety out there ranging from very expensive gel filled ones that have no better figures than ours, or cheaper ones that cost the earth to run.
Mountaingoat  His figures are essentially correct. But the way he explains how to use the heater is the equivalent of driving an economic car, but never taking it out of 1st gear. The manufacturer's figures would never match your consumption figures. you use heaters with thermostats and timers and on-off switches. Thus reducing your consumption.
Cantabrian Using the car analogy. According to him a Ferrari, a Prius and a Trabant all use petrol, therefore must have the same performance figures. I don't think so.
As for the appropriately named AwayWithTheFairies -Oil filled heaters are the Trabant of the above analogy. They are usually 2.5KW and would just about warm a toilet.

You have to get the balance right between purchase cost, running cost, economy, and efficiency.
Five years ago I did when I stumbled on a nifty Norwegian Heater. I was so impressed with them compared to the other rubbish I had tried that I started selling them as Neater Heaters. I have many, many satisfied customers and I am happy to sell them to friends and family with full confidence. But unfortunately I have discovered you always come across truth twisters like dodman1 on forums like this.
Happy Christmas everyone.

[Titch]

Keeping warm.

Don't ignore the use of heavy curtains and sausage door thingmigigs as heat retainers. Blinds should be closed at dusk as this helps with heat retention as well.

Titch

[nibbler]

When I lived in Seron over one winter,I asked one of my Spanish neighbours how they heated rooms.
She took me into the lounge and showed me.
Before they go to bed they put extra logs on the fire then damp it down,in the morning they put the hot embers into a large cast iron bowl and place it either under the table or in the centre of the room.This seems to work very well and it retains the heat for quite a few hours.
Nibbler :tiphat:

[martin]

Hi Alfie

In heating mode the air off louvre ( blade.deflector ) should be pointing at a downwards angle allowing the warm air to rise up from the floor level, whilst in cooling the air off louvre should be positioned in the horizontal position which will then allow the cold air to drop from the ceiling to the floor.
This design operates similar to normal convection currents but is a faster method as the indoor units are fan assisted and then much more efficient in controlling a room at the correct temperature.

Kind regards

Martin   

[alfie]

Martin - I stand corrected - in my defence, I do not understand why air-con units are used to warm a room up, when they are situated at ceiling height, thus heating up the air above where everyone is sitting!

[martin]

Hi Alfie

I am sorry but I have to correct you on your statement re: air-con units.
This subject comes up every winter and so not to bore people with the correct facts I would ask that they check out the posts on this subject from last year and from the year before.
All I will say is that a correctly sized inverter heat-pump will have a COP factor of 4 to 1 or higher where a convection heater will have a COP factor of 1 to 1 and that the correct inverter heat-pump system for the right application will consume much less power then any electrical heater.
Again all the information required can be found on previous postings.
I will also add that in my experience which includes over 25 years working in this industry with the relevant city and guilds qualifications etc that if people find that the units are costly to run it may be because that the units are undersized or not inverters or poorly installed and so on.
Please do not be offended by the above and should you or anybody else have any questions or wish to discuss in greater detail about the pros and cons of heat-pump technology verses other forms of electrical heating I would be more then happy to discuss them.

Kind regards

Martin           

[alfie]

Can't see how your bill can be so high, but air-con units used for heating are very expensive. I think you'd be better off with electric convector heaters.
Our electric bill, for tv, lights, oven,  pump for o/f c/h is €60 per month.
When we first came to Spain we used our oil c/h all the time - then we realised we were spending a fortune heating rooms we weren't in. We now use gas fires to give instant heat, and then put the c/h on to maintain that temperature.

[awaywiththefairies]

 Our neighbors use the low wattage panel heaters 400 watt in every room to take the chill off, with a top up from gas when needed and on a dual tariff find them economical. Perhaps it the way different people use them
Mike
[/quote]

Of course this depends of what you consider 'economical', I saw an advert recently where someone said the vehicle for sale was 'economical' doing 30mpg ??? personally something around 50mpg I would consider economical!

[musicdonna]

We have no heating iin the bedroom, but do have a dual controlled heated underblanket.  Bliss!!  We had three neaterheaters in our last house near Alicante.  They were woefully inadaquate and we would not buy them again.  We use wood burning stoves or a potable calor gas heater for instant, easy heat.

Donna

[alfie]

The real problem is that most Spanish houses do not have insulation. When we visit Spanish friends in winter, they still sit around a circular table with a small electric heater underneath, and wear layer upon layer of clothes on the upper half of their bodies.
The concept of heating an entire room seems entirely alien to them - and I suppose if you look at it from their point of view, why heat parts of a room that you are not sitting in?
We have adopted a semi-Spanish approach - we have central heating, but for most of the time we use a gas heater to heat up the room we are actually using, and then turn up the central heating for an hour or so in the evening to warm up the rest of the house.

[tintin]

I have an oil filled radiator in the bedroom which I put on an hour before going to bed, then turn the thermostat down found it very good value to run
Have 2 x 1KW panel heaters in lounge/diner on a timer for when we get up then put our gas fire on, but installing a log burner next year
The panel heaters very costly to run, the gas heater less so and throws out more heat  We've not yet changed to a dual tariff as not permanently in Spain, but feel its a must when we do. Our neighbors use the low wattage panel heaters 400 watt in every room to take the chill off, with a top up from gas when needed and on a dual tariff find them economical. Perhaps it the way different people use them
Mike

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

hi donk,  i had these night storage heaters in uk and were very happy with them but have enquired over here and no one has heard of storage heaters, but i guess you need to have cheap night rate electricty to make them economical. have you seen them in spain as i would certainly use them for bedroom.
everset

Try this its the web site www.elnur.es and yes you need the duel tariff

I'll go along with that Donk.

Everset, friends of ours have just had their house fitted out with night store heaters, and they're "very happy with them" too :)

[cantabrian]

I would have thought " Tony" would have commented on this forum to defend his panel heaters !!

[DONK]

hi donk,  i had these night storage heaters in uk and were very happy with them but have enquired over here and no one has heard of storage heaters, but i guess you need to have cheap night rate electricty to make them economical. have you seen them in spain as i would certainly use them for bedroom.
everset

Try this its the web site www.elnur.es and yes you need the duel tariff

[byrney]

What a strange response from "tony" - for €155 I´d expect it to warm my whole house!!

Today I bought a simple calor gas fire for €88 and I am sweltering from the heat.

[dodman1]

glad to hear from you all i purchased a 600 watt neater heater for a small 4 sq mtr on suite it is useless. you have to set stat at 30 to achieve 22. when i told tony from nhtrs he said what do you expect from a 155 euro heater,these are designed for heavily insulated norwegian houses.blah waffle blah.ah well done again the joys of spain.

[everset]

hi donk,  i had these night storage heaters in uk and were very happy with them but have enquired over here and no one has heard of storage heaters, but i guess you need to have cheap night rate electricty to make them economical. have you seen them in spain as i would certainly use them for bedroom.
everset

[DONK]

I have Mathius storage heaters (bricks inside) made in Spain ...I bought them new in England and took them back to spain where they were born haha they are superb

[byrney]

You´re absolutely right AWTF, but that is their main selling point - "neater"-heater - in that they sit tidily against a wall rather than stuck in the middle of the room.

As for their efficiency, and the heat they put out, well that´s another issue.

As said previously, I´d probably not buy again.

[awaywiththefairies]

It is just good marketing, how they compare to oil filled or other means is all waffle,they use electricity ,!!!!

Yes you a right 1kw of electric costs the same whatever heater you are using :).  Also these heater seem to just warm the wall behind them and not much else, so you would be better off with oil filled ones in the middle of the room!

[cantabrian]

It is just good marketing, how they compare to oil filled or other means is all waffle,they use electricity ,!!!!