Greece, who's to blame?

[webejamin]

Been having a look at things Greek :o
Greece owes about €352 billion of debt :o
But Greece reckon Germany owe Greece about €278 billion in war reparations that Germany have welched on :o
I wonder how much Germany has welched on to the rest of the world? I know they crapped on France after the first world war ???
Maybe Germany should be paying all our bills? :tiphat:

[byrney]

I think we're all singing from the same hymn sheet here in thinking that Germany would not want to lose either Greece or the UK.

Cameron and his pal Angela will come to a mutually satisfactory "arrangement" (have you seen the way they look at one another - a bit like the way him and Harriet Harman do  ;)) where Greece will be "let off" some or all of it's debt in exchange for her giving him some sort of (probably trivial) concessions to bolster his in campaign.

Incidentally, I understand that there's a rather nice Greek Restaurant in Witney..........(Sam, get on the phone and order a Greek  :whistle:).

[webejamin]

Think you're right 383, the Germans are the main losers and Merky will no doubt come to the rescue, but I think, to no avail in the long run. Of course they could always cancel the hundreds of billions debt, which the Greeks will never pay off, but we might :whistle:

Mind you the same could apply to a deal for Cameron? :whistle:

[Challenger 383]

The Germans will make it work, they have to, after all its  their money thats on the line, although the UK  financial sector  has said if the worst  happens and Greece is forced out  of the €, the Uk could cope, but there will be short term problems, Germany on the other hand could find itself  with some fairly  major problems, which will impact everywhere, or is it just a clever diversion  a sort of good cop bad cop, and at the end of the day the Germans will be seen as the saviors  of Greece and the EU. Read into it what  you want and draw your own conclusions. Intresting times we live in.

On a different tack i see mr blair has been hired by the Ukraine  to try to broker  peace between the two factions,  lets hope they can afford  him...lol

[byrney]

I suspect you are correct 42t, in that the problems are pretty much self-inflicted, but, when Greece was a "stand-alone" Country then I suppose it didn't really matter that people didn't pay taxes/rates, because it would be Greece itself which would be affected and eventually would have to get to grips with it.

I was only half joking when I mentioned the brown paper bag acting in place of a till, but one of my first memories of holidaying in Greece is the fact that there are hardly any properties which are fully "completed" because, that way, they could avoid paying their local building taxes.

None of this really mattered (a bit like the way that Spain ignored the need for correct building permission processes) because it only impacted on themselves.

The problem came when the EU were conned into thinking that Greece had a vibrant economy capable of playing with the big boys.

I'd far prefer Greece to exit the EU, and sort itself out from within, then we can all get back to our love affair with Greece and the idyllic Shirley Valentine life-style which is Greece and it's lovely people.

[byrney]

I hold my hands up Webe, it's all my fault!

All those cheap sun-kissed Greek Island holidays back in the eighties and nineties when I paid next to nothing for Mythos, Retsina and Ouzo by the gallon, and duly handed over my Drachma to the barman, who quickly put it in the brown paper bag next to the disconnected till........nothing like in Spain then. :whistle:

[Challenger 383]

Have to say they milked the system to the limit and well beyond, now the system wants feeding, i do not like the  way the ECB or the IM F have gone about their terms  and conditions, and they might live to regret their stance to Greece. As this might bring the Euro  tumbling down and plunge the continent  into another 5 years of crippling stagnation and  depression.

Lets hope both sides see sense, for the good of the rest of us.

[webejamin]

It's the age old problem and the Greeks know it, you owe the bank a few million and you got a problem, owe them a few billion and they've got a problem :tiphat:

[gus-lopez]

I know of a few Greek nationals who are still able to claim pensions of deceased relatives.. What's that about?

Or the 64k euros per year 35 our week metro cleaner . Ok if you can get it.
They cooked the books to get in.
Only 5 people in Athens admit to earning "over " 90k per year! There's some lying barstwewards about..
The income tax system works on a " honesty " basis ??????????  What ???? In Greece ??????  Even the Spanish don't take the ****   like that.
While talking about honesty , by all accounts there are some honest Greek taxpayers  as 16 people admit to having a swimming pool in Athens, which you have to pay council tax on, but aerial photo's show thousands of pools .So why haven't they cracked down on those not paying.


Anyway don't complain too loudly as when the Prescriptions were revamped here a couple of years back , 10's of 000's ,in Andalucia, were found to be claiming dead relatives pensions , along with 77,000 using dead relatives health cards & obtaining prescriptions . In many cases these were being flogged on to addicts. :lol:

[Trebmal]

I know of a few Greek nationals who are still able to claim pensions of deceased relatives.. What's that about?

[Tetley]

The Greek central bank boss is saying that if they come out of the EURO,this will roll on to an EU exit as well .......... :tiphat:

[webejamin]

I blame the EU generally, coz most of us knew how Greece has always ticked, same with Spain, all OK on their own, in their own cultural ways, but not to be mixed with more developed nations. Another reaction to the creation of the EU, is that corruption has been a by product, picked up by the more developed nations, including the UK :tiphat:

[languagesolutions]

Of course the whole system is to blame. The EU knew the state Greece was in and only let them in due to their 'historical' value as the creators of democracy. The three main Greek families have been robbing their people blind for centuries with crisis after crisis. So Germany decided to take advantage too,...

And of course, now the families are out, it's time to blame the new Government. Germany prefers the see the Greeks even poorer and still make money out of them than give them a chance to start breathing again.

¡viva la Unión Europea!

[Tetley]

apparently when they bin.............our stocks & pension funds are going to take a 5 to 10% hit.........................wonderfull news 

[KERRYOKE]

I think greece has to take the blame with a total population of just under 12million people a lot of them not paying there dues ie taxes ,considering that tourism brings them almost 20percent of the countrys GDP alone what have they been doing with all that cash.

Regards
Kerry

[Karen4]

As far as Greece is concerned, everybody is to blame except them! They'er nearly right, everybody IS to blame, including them. They cooked the books to make their figures look good, for admission to the EU, and none of the EU mandarins had the wit to check it out. Obviously the same sort of people who let paedophiles work with children and vulnerable adults, without checking their police records!

[nibbler]

Greece can only be the one's responsible, They spent it!!!!
Nibbler :tiphat:

[Tetley]

Germany & France are to blame...............let them sort it.........the best laff is.......when Greece bins in the next 2 weeks...........there entitled to" hardship " loans because there EU members..............luv it.   


i wonder if this is a good time to mention Thatcher saving all us UK pound landers...... :lol:

[webejamin]

It's strange how the likes of plebs like me and other ordinary people, were easily able to guess what would happen to the likes of Greece and a few other countries when they joined the Eurozone. I think much of the blame should be aimed at the likes of Germany and France, for encouraging such bad decisions and trying to create a super state. These countries were jogging along quite nicely prior to joining the single currency, or they seemed to be anyway.
Waddya fink people, smart move or what? ???