Housing Issue Update

[carsons1947]

Hi Lobo
It is not a matter of secrecy, I have only just seen you posting elsewhere. I gather you live in Zurgena and so cannot come into the Help Desk.

You seem to be getting conflicting information from your Council and from Roger.  The only way to be personally 100% sure of your facts is to read the LOUA or consult a lawyer.

I will pm you a suggestion.

[patriot]

The Help Desk has a policy of openess,

Really? I'm afraid I don't quite see it that way, just read my last post in the Complacency thread.
To my mind, we have two bodies who like to indulge in secrecy!

[carsons1947]

Here we go again.

The point I made was that as soon as we were aware of a possible problem the information was passed on to those that needed to know.  What they did with that information was up to then. Apparently the AUAN chose not to inform its members.

I also made the point that until police action made the facts clear, it was just rumour.

If the AUAN had developed good working relationships with the Council and with the Help Desk it would have had sight of the plans a long time ago, as we did.  Instead it chose confrontation.

The Help Desk has a policy of openess, the AUAN has one of secrecy. 

The 'my group' / 'your group' situation was of the AUAN's making.   

[Titch]

Carsons

I checked with 'my group' to find out whether 'my group' had heard the rumours about the missing € millions. 'My group' had heard the rumour, but you will remember from when it was also 'your group', 'my group' don't spread rumours, we only deal in facts.

We have also heard other 'rumours':
'A big problem in Arboleas'
'No problem in Arboleas'
'Best thing to do is to collaborate with the council to work it out'
Back to 'big problems in Arboleas'
'We need a new political party in Arboleas'
'Now money missing in Arboleas' ....... all coming from the same source.

Whereas the AUAN haven't really deviated from the same line.... show us the complete town planning documents, let us get independent advice, and we will then know where we stand. i.e No rumours, no bullshit, no electioneering.

Titch

[andie]

i aint got a big enough hat Bro !  ;)  :tiphat: S

[blueboy]

Yeabut Steve, maybe you should do as they do and keep it under your hat :tiphat: :tiphat:
then all will be well :rofl: :rofl: :whistle:

[andie]

you can DEFFINATLY  say that again   :wave  S

[carsons1947]

Perhaps you are not quite so much in touch with town hall issues as you thought Andie? 

[andie]

the  aledged missing millions    :o  :o  :o  are  certainly news to me ,and i live in downtown Arboleas ive heard not a word abought it until Rogers post   :tiphat:  S

[carsons1947]

Titch
You don't live in Arboleas so maybe you have not heard the rumours before, but your group was informed some time ago.  At this time they are only rumours and what becomes of them is up to the poilice etc.

I am not aware that anyone here has said that ALL was well in Arboleas.  What has been repeatedly said is that there are not the sort of problems with legalising property that there are in Albox.  We are getting on with the business of urbanisation with the second big batch of plans.  The Mayor has repeatedly said that there are no known cases that might involve demolitions. The first batch of plans are back from Seville stamped.

If you read the Arboleasnow web site you will see Arboleas is aware of large problems yet to be overcome and documentation is one of them. 

[Titch]

The brown stuff we are in just keeps getting deeper.  People are getting depressed and are at their wits end. The good weather is no substitute for legality.

The 'missing millions' was kept rather quiet, I've not heard this before.

All well in Arboleas? Just recently it seems not all.

Maybe all the villages will get their heads out of the sand and make a noise together? Surely nothing concentrates the mind like having to find thousands of euros to legalise the house and, maybe, lots more to pay exorbitant sums for infrastucture?  The goalposts just keep moving and the 'rich' Brits, in general, the target.

Am I bitter? Too b----- right.

Titch

[carsons1947]

It has been commonly thought, for well over a year, that there is a large sum that is missing.  Rumour says between 4 and 5 million and possibly during the time of the deceased Mayor.   

We have to wait for the police to deal with the situation.  Everything else but police and court action is  just unconfirmed rumour.

It could be a similar situation to Albox, but on a smaller scale.  Time will tell.

[John n Julie]

"The Police are searching for the millions gone missing from Arboleas Town Hall."

Whats all this about then?
Regards
John :tiphat: :tiphat:

[andie]

the answer is that everybody has being trying to tell you since december is moving forward as one ,and  folks not underming the job,with poltical  out of depth sillyness ,and folks running around cracking on thair in the know,when thay plainly arnt.

a bloke on here 3 years ago,hit the nail on the head,outlining the difficultys everybody faced,and here we are to day up **** creek,and everybody seid he was making trouble.

thair are 400,000 plus homes effected in one way shape or another,uk sp,D,f, all up **** creek,and the econamies now creeking,it isnt a local issue its a national issue / discrace.

the only folks who have had it right are the on the "streets legal pressure groups",and not the brit political wanna bee,s
this is why the EU  and the world media are involved to day and goverment ministers are visiting

thair has to be legal amendments,if not the econamies going down along with everybody in it,and the only way the amendments will take place is through a fiscally "advised" goverment from an EU that is reciving world media attention ,from folks exersing thair legal right to public meeting and organised  street walks.

if you want to make a diffrence Roger,carry a banner at the front on the next gathering.

no offence or disrespect  intended.

S  :tiphat:

[Roger]

So what is your answer Steve? Sit back and do nothing?
Leave it to the people who got us into this mess to sort it out?

The Police are searching for the millions gone missing from Arboleas Town Hall.

I know.
They have dumped on me once.
So I will sit here and let them dump on me again.

[andie]

" it does not seem to be a local mayor´s decision but a regional level one."

as thay all are,hence  Brit activists & councilors will be  as mutch use as a choclate firegaurd

no offence intended.

S  :tiphat:

[Saffi]

The 4 year rule has been used a lot in the past but my understanding is that as from Friday 7 May (tomorrow) the certificate of antiquity rule will not be accepted by the Junta, and thus this route to legalisation will no longer exist, it does not seem to be a local mayor´s decision but a regional level one.

[JackieLuv]

thanks Digfidd but i am sure there is more to it than that...to be built more than 4 years and not have any denuncias fits a lot of properties that even i know of so there must be hundreds if not thousands in Spain...if there is or was a 4 year rule and thats all that was needed then why dont you hear of it being used in the past

[digifidd]

As I understand it, the 4 year rule is one whereby if the house has been constructed for longer than that time period (and it can be proved by satellite pictures etc), plus there were no known objections(denuncias) to its construction, it could be made legal by default.

This is the kind of rule that developers were relying on when they built a lot of the illegal properties in the area.  A back door method if you will.

However, if someone opts for this route it is said to be risky as they have to sign a document to say that they are the developer/builder/promotor of the building and as such become liable for any breaches in regulation that may come to light.

Not an option I would wish to take as a purchaser of an already constructed house, as:
1.  I did not build the house and was not responsible for getting the licenses.
2.  There may be a denuncia in the offing (these take a long time to process) that I do not know about regarding the property having been built on rustic land instead of urban.
3. A developer becomes liable for infrastucture costs like lights, sewage, roads.  This also was not my responsibility at the time of construction.

So there you go.  If a mayor wont accept this as a valid route towards legalisation, I say good for him, as this is the kind of loop hole that helped cause a lot of the mess.

[JackieLuv]

There is another way, and much cheaper. The Certificate of Antiquidad (4 year rule)...what is this exactly ...i have heard of it but i was informed it finished mid 2007...

[ForumAdmin]

HOUSING DOCUMENTS

The first set of amendments to the Urban Plan is promised to be signed off soon.
The second set is at last showing the light of day, bit by bit.
How long will it all take, and what are the problems then to get all the documents for the houses?

On the time scale. The first set was sent to the Junta in October. We are now in May. So that is 7 months and counting.

As for the documents, there is a major problem.
Once the land is segregated you will need to get a Certificate of First Occupation, in order to get water and electric contracts.
This is where the problem lies.
In order to get the Certificate of First Occupation, you will need to show a copy of the Architect's Project, along with the Architect's Final de Obras, correctly registered with the College of Architects.
Also you will need to show a copy of the Building Licence.
Of course this is a problem. If the house was on rustic land it could not have a valid building licence, so a new one has to be applied for. In order to obtain this you will need an architect's Project of Legalisation. Total cost estimated at around 7000 euros!!
This cost could be reduced if the builder can produce his original Project.
This cost is due to be paid by the builder, but in many cases they are now closed down, or refusing to pay. (All this problem has been caused because of the long delay in sorting out the mess. It could all have been done in 2003/4).

And it is not just those houses built on rustic land which face this problem.
According to the Town Hall, many builders paid for 5 licences and built 10 or 20 houses. (Perhaps the Town Hall surveyor could not count beyond 5!!)

So now the Town Hall is trying to get these licences paid for in retrospect, when in reality it is the owner who will have to pay.

This is totally unacceptable. There is another way, and much cheaper. The Certificate of Antiquidad (4 year rule).
But the Mayor has told us he will not accept this process.

The struggle continues.