The Murdering Scum Have Done It Again

[Tetley]

Its also a intresting  that 100,s if not 1000,s of people are killed & maimed every year through diffrent factions backed by diffrent governments...... but no body realy seems to bat an eye lid until" we get it "on an EU  or USA  street.

whats even more intresting is we now have EU  cit killing EU  citz on EU streets.

  :-X

[felipe]

macc.

Anyone over the age of 55 will be fully aware of how terrorism affects your life. Think about all the IRA bombings in London, Birmingham and elsewhere. All the atrocities in Northern Ireland in the early 1970s. I was working over there at Courtaulds in Londonderry and Belfast and we were paid 'danger money' because the risk of being English and being there was so dangerous at the time. Whilst there some GPO engineers were blown up not far from our hotel. So yes, many of us have experienced terrorism.

How you can deny that incidents like the one on Wednesday ever happened is beyond belief. You also seem to forget that today's media is vastly different to the one 40 years ago. It is now instant coverage of any atrocity or disaster. Back in the 1970s I doubt many people outside of the UK were ever really fully aware of the terrorism going on in the Britain.

The other fact is that it IS representatives of the Muslim community that are the ones perpetrating these attacks. These attacks are on a global scale. Who else is carrying out attacks? There was coverage a few weeks about a localised attack in Mexico I think it was. But that was to do with drug runners or something. The vast majority of attacks on the western world are carried out by fanatical Muslims. That you cannot deny.

[zilnor]

Come on then Macc, you obviously know something I don't so tell me which terrorist attacks reported by the media are untrue ? Would that be 9/11, the bomb that went off a few years ago at Canary Wharf ( I was in the area so I know that one was real ) murder of Lee Rigby on a London Street, the murders in Paris a couple of days ago ?  And so on and so on.  Are you really saying that the media have made these up ? If so, that is why I advised you to get real.
Yes, we all know the media exaggerates and bends the facts at times, but that does not make them untrue.
If you believe they make up everything up then perhaps you are the one who  should "have another drink " or perhaps see a psychiatrist.

[LisaD]

The world learns of these events through the media. This does not make them untrue.  :lol: :lol: :lol:Zilnor, have another drink and keep watching the news, your doing fine. I like the Get real bit at the end, that was funny :clap:

Sure, SOME newspapers/tv channels like to add a little sensationalism, but I can't think of much that's been covered by the media over the last few decades that's actually been untrue.

On the other hand, some faith schools teach lies and warped beliefs about their religion being better than that of non-believers

[macc]

The world learns of these events through the media. This does not make them untrue.  :lol: :lol: :lol:Zilnor, have another drink and keep watching the news, your doing fine. I like the Get real bit at the end, that was funny :clap:

[LisaD]

Try telling thousands of Americans and Brits that they have not experienced terrorism...

Israelis could tell us a thing or two as well.

Of course the different factions of muslims don't exactly rub along together happily either so it would appear that the common denominator is (as far as barbaric violence, terrorism and fanatical ideology are concerned) is Islam/Muslims

[zilnor]

OK Macc, so because of the past mistakes the West may have made in Muslim countries, you think it is OK for them to continue to carry out acts of terrorism ? How would you feel if your family was wiped out ? Sit back and say " that is OK, they are getting their own back, good  on them . "  
You  refer to us as " you cosy ubombed people. You know nothing of terrorism or true fear and any fear you may feel is purposefully fed to you daily " . So the media and the politicians have made up events such as 9/11, various terrorist atrocities around the world, the murder of Lee Rigby on a London street, yesterday's atrocity in Paris. Etc etc etc. etc etc.
The world learns of these events through the media. This does not make them untrue.

The reason why those innocent people were killed in Paris was because a magazine published what some extremist Muslims thought was an insult to Islam. Nothing to do with what the West was doing in other parts of the world.
Get real.

[MELEE]

I think it's called the freedom of the press - publish and be damned - or be massacred by Islamic fanatics

[bobthelook]

Apparently many people  are calling on the world's media to publish Charlie Hebdo cartoons.   Is this a useful thing to do, I wonder or is it being unnecessarily provocative ?  Have we any Muslims on the forum who may provide a balanced response perhaps?

[macc]

Do you mean, me with my split personality, or some other two.

[MELEE]

well there's obviously no hope for you two

[macc]

Not really a balanced debate here is it, i know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but has anyone seriously looked or thought why islamic leaders dont shout louder, they run a fine line between alienating their own people and becoming targets themselves for these sick physco's.
nobody here has asked the question as to why this is happening,  why not?
Have people forgotten how many millions of totally innocent people died in Iraq?, when Bush And Teflon Tw*t engaged the west in an unjust and unsanctioned war, all they really managed to do was destabilise what was a not to nice regime and throw the entire region into disarray,  of fighting factions and civil wars, the same will happen in Afghanistan,  but thats a problem waiting to happen at some point in the future.
before you shout your mouths off,  for once put your grey matter into gear and ask yourself WHY this is occurring,  once people finally ask the right questions there may be hope.

Challenger, An unjust and unsanctioned war where millions have died, and those who survived, their futures destroyed, just doesn't count on here, because media sheep only know what they are told. The bigger picture doesn't exist. They know of no other existence outside the goggle box and the continuous bullsh¡t they are fed  They will never understand why the Muslims continue to refuse the freedom we continually  force on them. You see the problem here isn’t that Muslims are more likely to commit terroristic crimes, it’s that the media is more likely to ensure you find out if it IS a Muslim. Look at the devastation and the devastated in the Muslim world, and wake the ****up you cosy unbombed people. We know nothing of terrorism, or true fear, and any fear you may feel is purposely fed to you daily. Why round the clock coverage on terror and war all the time. And i just heard on sky news that racism has no real basis and there are scientific studies that prove it. The reporter said, People with no proper education don' t know that and don' t have the maturity to recognise it either. Thus, are trapped in their own stupidity.  That explains a lot of posts on here, and the women seem more racist than the men. :lol:

[MELEE]

well said Gus

LisaD the only ones who think Enoch was a racist are the same ones who are in total denial of the threat to the western world in the name of islam

[LisaD]

Personally as I have said before , I was always against allowing in vast amounts of non- christians. Does this make me a racist ? I don't think so ,just as it didn't make Enoch Powell one. I had no problem with them as long as it was made perfectly clear that it was a Christian country & there was no problem with them following any religion they chose as long as they don't want to force it on us. It wasn't done & politicians /police/whoever were more intent on not upsetting the few troublemakers  , when in reality they should have cracked down at the first sign , good & hard.


Felipe;
I watched the sky report. I try not to as I can't afford replacing the screens these days, but yes you were quite right. If they stood there forever there was no way that the Muslim spokesman was ever going to change his view that lampooning of Mohammed,posting images was ever going to be anything other than racist & it didn't matter about the other religions. I also think that the UK view that they don't publish anything is wrong & is tantamount to allowing them carte blanche to get away with anything.
As I posted in the first post , if the quoran was written today it would be on par with the scientologists.

Spot on and anyone who really believes Enoch Powell was a racist really hasn't researched who he was and what he believed in

[gus-lopez]

A question to those who think ' round them up and nuke the whole lot of them'.
My parents and myself , sister and brother were living in Birmingham when those awful bombs went off. My parents, God rest them, were the most honest hard working people I have ever known. They were good hearted people who never did anyone any harm, the opposite, til they day they died.
Now tell me, should all Irish people have been rounded up and killed then? I was 8, my sister 6 and baby brother of 2 . A genuine question.

Well I was there in Birmingham , where I wasn't supposed to be, as me mum thought I was down in the east end in London.  :lol:  but fortunately we hadn't been able to get in. Even then I didn't consider that all should be killed. Just as I hoped hat when I worked in Ireland they didn't all want me killed ! :lol:
I'm not advocating it now except in the middle east if the different states won't stop funding terrorism.
It is the lack of more vocal condemnation from the muslim  leaders that is the concern.
I know quite a few moroccans over here & many smoke, drink & I'm always surprised by the amount of women who actually drive.
So I reckon I'm well down fatwah the list.

Personally as I have said before , I was always against allowing in vast amounts of non- christians. Does this make me a racist ? I don't think so ,just as it didn't make Enoch Powell one. I had no problem with them as long as it was made perfectly clear that it was a Christian country & there was no problem with them following any religion they chose as long as they don't want to force it on us. It wasn't done & politicians /police/whoever were more intent on not upsetting the few troublemakers  , when in reality they should have cracked down at the first sign , good & hard.


Felipe;
I watched the sky report. I try not to as I can't afford replacing the screens these days, but yes you were quite right. If they stood there forever there was no way that the Muslim spokesman was ever going to change his view that lampooning of Mohammed,posting images was ever going to be anything other than racist & it didn't matter about the other religions. I also think that the UK view that they don't publish anything is wrong & is tantamount to allowing them carte blanche to get away with anything.
As I posted in the first post , if the quoran was written today it would be on par with the scientologists.

[zilnor]

Webe,  I made an earlier posting on living in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets for eleven years. My experience Is much the same as yours.  :wave

[Challenger 383]

Thank you doreen, another genuine thoughtful person, exactly, where do you draw the line?

[doreen1]

A question to those who think ' round them up and nuke the whole lot of them'.
My parents and myself , sister and brother were living in Birmingham when those awful bombs went off. My parents, God rest them, were the most honest hard working people I have ever known. They were good hearted people who never did anyone any harm, the opposite, til they day they died.
Now tell me, should all Irish people have been rounded up and killed then? I was 8, my sister 6 and baby brother of 2 . A genuine question.

[Challenger 383]

True bob, but reading about it and suffering it first hand are poles apart.
and unless  it has happened to you personally no amount of words or opinions bear any resemble to this vile personal attack on an individual or group.

I hate racism above all other forms of abuse and will not tolerate it under any circumstances,  dont care what its about or who its about. You loose something that cant be described easily, that can never be replaced, may be it's faith in fellow human beings, as I said I cant put it into words.

[webejamin]

Probably do a few people good to have a walk round some parts of East London, especially at night. If your female, be careful how you dress and walk and talk. Don't think coz you're a bloke, you can just walk round with a can of beer in your hand, or have a laugh with your mates, coz you may get a bit of education regarding bigotry or racism.
I too experienced fear on the train into London just after 7/7 in fact I still hate being on the bloody trains. My nieces are constantly abused on the buses and trains, but nobody wants to know about that. My nephew was attacked in Romford by Asians, but he got nicked, 4 of them against him, he was cleared but only after a few weeks.
When you see Muslims on the telly spouting against violence, they are usually just saying what they want you to hear at that moment, inside their head they mean something else, coz they are talking to non Muslims, nobody else. :tiphat:

[bobthelook]

So unless you have experienced Racism first hand and not read about it in the Express or Daily Mail, just zip it.

You don't need to have experienced racism to express an honestly held opinion.

[Challenger 383]

Another question to you all,

You are all banging on about racism,  How many of you sitting in you nice 3bed 2bath villa with your pool have EVER suffered racism first hand. I certainly have, just to let you white God fearing folk know , im white and believe it or not, English, it didn't occur in the UK, Which im surprised about reading this thread.
So unless you have experienced Racism first hand and not read about it in the Express or Daily Mail, just zip it.

[gus-lopez]

The trouble with Islam is that some of the extremist beliefs are almost incomprehensible to non-Muslim people. To have sharia law which involves stoning people to death, to behead someone because they do not share your particular beliefs, to believe that girls should not be allowed to be educated or go to school, to believe that women should be virtually unseen beneath burkhas and veils etc etc . To have an aim of imposing Sharia law in the UK, to consider that your particular brand of religion is superior to anyone elses, not to integrate within communities, to have zero tolerance of any criticism of Mohammad,  in a democratic country that your family have re-located to - whether it is recently or three generationa ago - all these factors are very real and present in our society and are seriously miss-placed. Of course not every Muslim expresses these views or behaves in this way - but there in no doubt that there is a mainstream belief of many of these issues within that community.   In Rochdale it was primarily Asians who targeted the white girls  - people are afraid to express their honestly held beliefs for fear of political correctness and for being accused as a racist.  Of course there are thousand of decent integrated Muslims who are valuable members of our society - few would disagree with this. But we are a small island and millions upon millions including many Muslims want to enter the UK and when you drive through cities such as Birmingham and you struggle to see any non-whites you realise how many people have entered our shores. I remember walking through an area of Birmingham and it did feel very strange as if I was actually in a different world,  a little uncomfortable.  In the 50s apart from some West Indians who contributed  to society and tried to integrate we simply did not have all these people with their imported views that are anathema to  the British people.  I realise that I have mentioned and mixed different points such as immigration, Muslim ideals and I am aware that there are other religions within Asian, and Arab cultures but many of these issues are  linked. When we shout about how democratic we are and we should be free to poke fun or express views that others may not like, perhaps we should ask why  a Christian with strong views about the bible who had a sandwich board  which stated that the bible had said homosexuality was against Gods wishes -or words to that effect. The man was spat on shouted at and had things thrown at him. Who did the police arrest? The man with the sandwich board!  Whats that got to do with the Muslim issue? The point is we are not consistent with our upholding of out democratic beliefs. We should not be afraid to shout out -enough! Enough immigration, enough bullying by the Establishment, enough political correctness, enough appeasement of foreign cultures who have taken the British hospitality and are trying to replace our way of life with their own .  Our law-makers need to toughen up and reflect public opinion, if not it will be at their peril.

Spot on Bob , especially the last line.

[MELEE]

Gus  :clap: :clap: :clap: You have hit the nail right on the head but alas you are wasting your time with saint76 who applauds LisaD for this

As Phil the owner (and several other posters) have said, it would be good if folks (you know who you are and you are a tiny minority as most of us are being jolly civil) can refrain from personal insults and actually debate this subject.

Absolutely Lisa

But can't ever see that it is HE and his cronies who start the name calling and insult throwing

[bobthelook]

The trouble with Islam is that some of the extremist beliefs are almost incomprehensible to non-Muslim people. To have sharia law which involves stoning people to death, to behead someone because they do not share your particular beliefs, to believe that girls should not be allowed to be educated or go to school, to believe that women should be virtually unseen beneath burkhas and veils etc etc . To have an aim of imposing Sharia law in the UK, to consider that your particular brand of religion is superior to anyone elses, not to integrate within communities, to have zero tolerance of any criticism of Mohammad,  in a democratic country that your family have re-located to - whether it is recently or three generationa ago - all these factors are very real and present in our society and are seriously miss-placed. Of course not every Muslim expresses these views or behaves in this way - but there in no doubt that there is a mainstream belief of many of these issues within that community.   In Rochdale it was primarily Asians who targeted the white girls  - people are afraid to express their honestly held beliefs for fear of political correctness and for being accused as a racist.  Of course there are thousand of decent integrated Muslims who are valuable members of our society - few would disagree with this. But we are a small island and millions upon millions including many Muslims want to enter the UK and when you drive through cities such as Birmingham and you struggle to see any non-whites you realise how many people have entered our shores. I remember walking through an area of Birmingham and it did feel very strange as if I was actually in a different world,  a little uncomfortable.  In the 50s apart from some West Indians who contributed  to society and tried to integrate we simply did not have all these people with their imported views that are anathema to  the British people.  I realise that I have mentioned and mixed different points such as immigration, Muslim ideals and I am aware that there are other religions within Asian, and Arab cultures but many of these issues are  linked. When we shout about how democratic we are and we should be free to poke fun or express views that others may not like, perhaps we should ask why  a Christian with strong views about the bible who had a sandwich board  which stated that the bible had said homosexuality was against Gods wishes -or words to that effect. The man was spat on shouted at and had things thrown at him. Who did the police arrest? The man with the sandwich board!  Whats that got to do with the Muslim issue? The point is we are not consistent with our upholding of out democratic beliefs. We should not be afraid to shout out -enough! Enough immigration, enough bullying by the Establishment, enough political correctness, enough appeasement of foreign cultures who have taken the British hospitality and are trying to replace our way of life with their own .  Our law-makers need to toughen up and reflect public opinion, if not it will be at their peril.

[gus-lopez]

Gus if you are fed up with my posts don't read them simple really.
I "started this slanging match" gus,. read the OP and her subsequent posts.
I "fall back on the racism thing" because some of what gets posted by you and others is racist.
Saying that I condone what has happened in france because I accuse someone of being a bigot for wanting to nuke all muslims... is bordering on lunacy Gus.

Sorry apart from your other bit about wanting to wipe out the muslim world, (but save the oil, have you been downstairs on an all you can drink buffett?) I did not understand much else.
The ramblings of a madman.

You theorised,& rightly ,that various Arab countries are funding various different terror networks. I have merely shown a way forward in realigning there thoughts towards carrying on this process by removing vast amounts of them whilst retaining the infrastructure. It is a solution & no different to what I would propose for the "Never worked in my life" benefit monkeys.
I don't drink.
I don't want to wipe out the Muslim world just anyone that is antagonistic & means that I might have to keep looking over my shoulder. Along with all those in power promising without delivering; That's most politicians then? Anyone not working for the better interests of their country. All drug addicts & dealers. Terrorists. Yes I know they say " one mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter " but remove them all & peace reigns.

Yes ,we have bent over backwards allowing all these different nationalities into the Uk.
We have allowed them to abuse the hand that gave them asylum , help, housing ,clothing & money.
We have allowed them to preach hatred both openly & behind closed doors.
We have allowed them to groom & abuse young women  without or fear of being accused of 'racism'
We have allowed them to disrupt ceremonies for returning fallen soldiers.
We have allowed the burning of our flag & abuse of all the Christian values that we had left.


Would you help someone, let them into your house & put up with all the above ? Would you ****. You 'd rip them to pieces & throw them out. & that's what should be done with any of them.

In the Sky piece the journalist is quite right in his assertion that there is a hidden agenda to ensure that Islam & Mohamed , cannot be lampooned. It cannot be allowed.

[Challenger 383]

Not really a balanced debate here is it, i know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but has anyone seriously looked or thought why islamic leaders dont shout louder, they run a fine line between alienating their own people and becoming targets themselves for these sick physco's.
nobody here has asked the question as to why this is happening,  why not?
Have people forgotten how many millions of totally innocent people died in Iraq?, when Bush And Teflon Tw*t engaged the west in an unjust and unsanctioned war, all they really managed to do was destabilise what was a not to nice regime and throw the entire region into disarray,  of fighting factions and civil wars, the same will happen in Afghanistan,  but thats a problem waiting to happen at some point in the future.
before you shout your mouths off,  for once put your grey matter into gear and ask yourself WHY this is occurring,  once people finally ask the right questions there may be hope.

[zilnor]

Agreed Lisa  :wave

[zilnor]

Good posting King Saint.  :clap:
But I still believe that we all have slightly different views on what constitutes racism. And I also believe that is a subject on which we will have to agree to disagree  :wave

[King saint 76]

As Phil the owner (and several other posters) have said, it would be good if folks (you know who you are and you are a tiny minority as most of us are being jolly civil) can refrain from personal insults and actually debate this subject.

Absolutely Lisa

[King saint 76]

King Saint.  I do not want to nuke the whole Islamic world  :head  I hate violence, but it is the Muslim extremists who are willingly murdering thousands of people around the world. Would you like to live under Muslim rule and Sharia law ?  How do you propose to put a stop to it all ? You are very good at shouting many of us down so please tell us how you would deal with it.  :head

Obviously I would not like to live under sharia law, and i know muslim extremists are killing thousands...    I have absolutely no idea how to solve it, no one does.
Troops on the ground... immpossible, they are spread worldwide.  Intellegence agencies can only cover so much ground.

The extremists have infiltrated the western world and set up cells...  very difficult  to control with limited manpower.

The only thing we can do is not let it stop us going about our way of life, our freedom of speech and and other things that we have living in a democracy.

But kneejerk talk of total annihalation to the muslim world is totally ridiculous. Unfortnately that is what turned this debate into the farce it later became.
All of us are drinking from the same trough where this barbaric atrocity is concerned, but the debate fails when racism pops up.

[zilnor]

Agreed Lisa  :wave

[LisaD]

As Phil the owner (and several other posters) have said, it would be good if folks (you know who you are and you are a tiny minority as most of us are being jolly civil) can refrain from personal insults and actually debate this subject.

[zilnor]

Wrong way round King S . People become martyrs if they are killed "for their cause " ,not if they live.
The French will want them alive for information.  They won't worry too much about human rights during interrogation !

[zilnor]

King Saint.  I do not want to nuke the whole Islamic world  :head  I hate violence, but it is the Muslim extremists who are willingly murdering thousands of people around the world. Would you like to live under Muslim rule and Sharia law ?  How do you propose to put a stop to it all ? You are very good at shouting many of us down so please tell us how you would deal with it.  :head