Should the UK ??

[zilnor]

Webe, I am also confused.com  :lol:  it is because the world knows that GB is a soft touch , with a generous benefits system. The French don't want them and are very happy to let them cross to England.
Enough is enough. Our islands  will sink under the weight of them all  :lol:

[webejamin]

What I can't get my head round is, all those illegals are in France, are they not illegals in France? or are they only illegal once they get to the UK? I just wonder what France would have to say, if it was all reversed and we were allowing them to camp at Dover, until they could get across to France?
If they get into France, or Italy, surely they should process them and send them all back from whence they came. When interviewed by the media, they all seem to know where they came from, but when they get here, they admit nothing, but we have to process them and eventually send them back, although the numbers returned are tiny.

webe the confounded ???

[gus-lopez]

Stand by for more coming in
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/migrants_try_to_board_dover_bound_cars_and_lorries_queuing_up_in_calais_due_to_strike_1_4123433

& whose fault is this?  Oh yes the monopolies commission who said that Eurotunnel had to sell MYferry as there was a " conflict of interest " ??? Sorry it was a stand alone company that competed with DFDS & P&O & they were given 6 months to sell or shut it down ??
So DFDS bought it . ???WTF  , so now there is only 2 companies. That's less of a monopoly is it ?
What they should do is round up all the pikeys on the monopolies commission, & drop them right in the middle between the camel drivers & French seamen & ****ing tell them to sort it. Then when done top the lot of the useless scum  + the illegals & clear all the migrants out of Calais ,dead or alive!

[webejamin]

Stand by for more coming in
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/migrants_try_to_board_dover_bound_cars_and_lorries_queuing_up_in_calais_due_to_strike_1_4123433

[Tetley]

But thats the scary senario,  which might pan out. If it does the only people  to blame would be the politicians  themselves,  again as i have said and always said they do NOT live in the same world as the rest of us, they may say they do, in reality  they are so far out of touch with the working man/woman.

They dont listen, and their arrogance  shines through, with their decision  making, the best example i can think of is the present Greek debacle, in essence  the great rulling classes of this world, do not like being held to ransom by an ordinary member of the public, a mere sub class of the human species.unfortunately  for the Greeks it will be a genuine Greek Tragedy. I wont even go into what the EU Commission  has frog marched and forced through legislation

But back to the EU referendum, even if the entire community  in Westminster  voted to stay in, it wouldn't  make the slightest  difference if the electorate  voted  a resounding out,  or at least i hope it wouldn't.

 Even more scary, perhaps thats what they want.

O Dear 383
What a terrible start to the day...........for our political youth/Aged  :o......thay think they can change the world  .......with words O0

,and what a wonderfull day i will now  have,paint brush in hand,up high in the outer reaches of 2nd coat 30 deg heat drain pipe hights  :alien:,knowing that at least 2 of us on this planet have grasped the meaning of life.............dont forget to vote citizens ;D

morning all ;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_6_e2BtyZ0

PS
I Admire the 2 Greek lads,they didnt cause the Crisis,but there certainly holding there own,IE  were not having any,give us a deal or melt the X ..g euro land skys  :clap:

as opposed to that Tory Dipp PM  we have,whom will be campaigning for an IN  in the UK  ..... wile telling the EU..... he will be taking the UK  out if he dosent get a deal............. Soft pillxck   :head

[webejamin]

He might not be able to word the referendum  quite how he wants, and it may end up as a simple yes/no or close to it.

Seems it's going to be "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?"    YES / NO
Note it doesn't say "Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union?"    YES / NO  Which is in fact what the vote is all about when you think about it :whistle:

Nothing meant by taking your comment out of context 383 :tiphat:

[Challenger 383]

But thats the scary senario,  which might pan out. If it does the only people  to blame would be the politicians  themselves,  again as i have said and always said they do NOT live in the same world as the rest of us, they may say they do, in reality  they are so far out of touch with the working man/woman.

They dont listen, and their arrogance  shines through, with their decision  making, the best example i can think of is the present Greek debacle, in essence  the great rulling classes of this world, do not like being held to ransom by an ordinary member of the public, a mere sub class of the human species.unfortunately  for the Greeks it will be a genuine Greek Tragedy. I wont even go into what the EU Commission  has frog marched and forced through legislation

But back to the EU referendum, even if the entire community  in Westminster  voted to stay in, it wouldn't  make the slightest  difference if the electorate  voted  a resounding out,  or at least i hope it wouldn't.

  Even more scary, perhaps thats what they want.

[PhillipJLloyd]

He might not be able to word the referendum  quite how he wants, and it may end up as a simple yes/no or close to it, it just remains to be seen, still think he foolishly  offered this referendum. to get back into power, not thinking the consequences  through. In his wildest  dreams he never dreamt of an overall  majority, this in itself  is noose around his neck as a large  percentage of his vote was tactical and anti EU, so he's  damed if he does or damed if he doesn't. Either way he's  lost, may be not now but in a few years time, the tories will end up witb labour in the wilderness.

Probably right, but what hope has the country with both parties wondering about in the wilderness ??

[Challenger 383]

He might not be able to word the referendum  quite how he wants, and it may end up as a simple yes/no or close to it, it just remains to be seen, still think he foolishly  offered this referendum. to get back into power, not thinking the consequences  through. In his wildest  dreams he never dreamt of an overall  majority, this in itself  is noose around his neck as a large  percentage of his vote was tactical and anti EU, so he's  damed if he does or damed if he doesn't. Either way he's  lost, may be not now but in a few years time, the tories will end up witb labour in the wilderness.

[byrney]

A Referendum, with a carefully worded question which will encourage an in vote.

If the outcome is out, then he'll get Parliament to ignore it anyway.  He seemingly has enough Labour (Chukka et al) support that even if some Tories rebel in a "free vote" he'll win the day.  You might THINK he's daft but......

[Challenger 383]

Do you think he actually  knows what he's  doing, seems to me he's  promised an in/out referendum on the slip of his tongue, everyone  knows he has got to go ahead with his dubious  offer, he's  backed himself into a corner and cant find his way out, he's  foolishly  told the electorate  he will will get the EU to make genuine  and far reaching treaty changes before going  to a referendum, he unfortunately  won't  achieve  this so whats his next step?

[Tetley]

Well there,s just been a Gerry on the news saying that no way will Merkell do a treaty change ,Camms has got the wong end of EU shovel again............. if yer ask me,all that Camrons going to get will be a craker jacj pencil and an out.....

[gus-lopez]

Revenge?   Revenge for what. Still wanting to trade?  So what are the  facts in the assumption  that a a brexit would be detrimental?

The 11 billion+ that they have now all got to significantly increase there yearly contributions for to make up the shortfall of UK exit.

[byrney]

Excuse me for being confused Jabba.  Problem is it's difficult to have a sensible discussion when the full facts aren't available.  So maybe I'll just depart this thread. :tiphat:

[jabba the cat]

Why wouldn't  the same conditions prevail if we left the EU. It's  in no ones interest not to trade as they do now, it would be ridiculous to think the EU would turn it's  back on us, what on earth could it possibly gain. Never mind about British companies going bust, there would be plenty of European companies going to the wall too it would work both ways, more jobs would be lost by signing up to TTIP, than would ever be lost through the UK leaving the EU.

Well a last some one makes a statement with common sense. to your sir... :tiphat:

[webejamin]

I think, in the long run the EU would be the losers. Far more comes into the UK from the EU, than goes out from the UK, into the EU, unless you count empty trailers. The UK is about 3rd highest contributor to the EU so any short fall would be sorely felt. I can't see borders being closed, coz borders go both ways. The other thing is, there's no money in revenge, so I can't see the fat cats throwing Teddy out.
Don't take your eye off the political ball, deals will be done and connivance will reign :tiphat:   

[Challenger 383]

Revenge?   Revenge for what. Still wanting to trade?  So what are the  facts in the assumption  that a a brexit would be detrimental?

[byrney]

So, 383 are you saying that the concensus amongst SMEs is that an out decision wouldn't adversely affect them and put them out of business. To be honest I can't recall any SME organisations (does the Small Business Service still exist?) so far coming out and saying what the impact would be.

I am genuinely interested because my main concern is the impact on the economy, and, whilst currently in the stay in camp I could readily be persuaded with genuine reasons rather than political bxxxxxxt.

As for what would EU  Companies gain by not trading with UK Companies? Revenge?

[Challenger 383]

Why wouldn't  the same conditions prevail if we left the EU. It's  in no ones interest not to trade as they do now, it would be ridiculous to think the EU would turn it's  back on us, what on earth could it possibly gain. Never mind about British companies going bust, there would be plenty of European companies going to the wall too it would work both ways, more jobs would be lost by signing up to TTIP, than would ever be lost through the UK leaving the EU.

[byrney]

El Presidente, spot on with almost everything, especially the destruction of the SME base come an out vote.  The Unions destroyed the large industries.  Lose both and the Country is well and truly up s*** creek.

I'm not quite as "BNP" as you are on immigration, but can go along with most of what you say.

[byrney]

Fully agree Webe (must be the anaesthetic).  To ditch a whole Bill, coupled with the time taken to get a new watered-down version through Parliament is pure daft.

Unfortunately, he knows that there'll be a few niggers in the woodpile who'll stymie a quick tinkering of the current one to get rid of some of the political dogma.

Also, of course, it's one of the planks which secured his victory.  What a shame the Labour Party Unionistas couldn't see sense for once and get a feel for what p****s off the real (plebs) people.

[webejamin]

I think he may have said that he wants to do away with the Human Rights Act as badly scripted by the Labour Party.  I don't think he actually meant get rid of human rights per se.  But no doubt you'll believe what you want anyway.

It's not a matter of believing one thing or another byrney, it's just pure fact. No matter who, or what, introduced the Human Rights Act, (probably Winston Churchill) or the ECHR, Cameron has promised to ditch it for a Tory made "Bill of Rights". No if's or but's. Don't need much thinking about, or a pencil to work it out.
Personally I am in favour of tweeking the existing ECHR where it protects terrorists. The only thing the Labour party did was give us UK plebs the same rights as anyone else in the EU. :tiphat:

[Tetley]

He's obviously gone into panic mode now that a huge number of Labour MPs are going to support him with an in vote!  :lol:

Yes its intresting Kate Howie seems to have it sussed out,that it will be down to the Man & Women in the street..........no matter what the polatics are also looks like Greece is going to go to the Euro / German wall soon as well.....................

spin the EU  wheel  :tiphat:

[byrney]

He's obviously gone into panic mode now that a huge number of Labour MPs are going to support him with an in vote!  :lol:

[Tetley]

Apparently Camron has binned the floated May 2016 Reffo date ,so its looking like 2017.

:tiphat:

[byrney]

I think he may have said that he wants to do away with the Human Rights Act as badly scripted by the Labour Party.  I don't think he actually meant get rid of human rights per se.  But no doubt you'll believe what you want anyway.

[webejamin]

I see old Rama Lama Cameron has finally stated the facts, he pledges to do away with the Human Rights Act. Now, what a lot of people don't realise is, it's our human rights as well. He say's he wants to safeguard the legacy of the Magna Carta, made 800 years go. You don't have to go back 100 years to see what's in store for us plebs do you ??? I can see the EU giving him that one, just to keep us in the trough. >:D  

[byrney]

383  :clap:

[Challenger 383]

Yer you're  probably  right byrney, but it's  slowly  but surely  going  that way, the only thing i could possibly  add is "they reap what they sow" in their total ignorance  of what their respective  electorates  are actually thinking. The referendum  offer is just a knee jerk reaction, as all the political  parties  were caught out with  their aspirations  and the aspirations  of joe public, and they have been physically  shocked as to how far out of step they really  are, for one I'm truly  glad they've been caught out,  people don't  want to hear the same sh1t day in day out, its like for God's sake change the bloody 8 track, we can see right through your bullsh1t.

[byrney]

"No UK politician has even contemplated how other up and coming elections around Europe might end up with a resurgence  of nationalism across the board  and what the consequences  of that might entail" - oh, I reckon they have, and are probably terrified of the consequences like many of us are.

[Challenger 383]

I'd  have said that France and Germany  are close on most things  Though that might well change drastically  if the national  front gets into power in France at the next election, and all the signs are there to suggest  they will hold the power to make decisions. The UK and Germany, see eye to eye on a lot of issues, except where the 4 freedoms are  concerned. And it's  these that Cameron want substantially restructuring, if I'm  not mistaken,  Germany  has said the 4 freedoms are sacrosanct, if Cameron  is going to save face these will be the make or break issues. A baddly worded or should i say cleverly  worded fudge will be cobbled  together, and the sham will continue as usual.

No UK politician has even contemplated how other up and coming elections around Europe might end up with a resurgence  of nationalism across the board  and what the consequences  of that might entail.

[PhillipJLloyd]

Surely at the moment the EU is a 3 nation state, UK, Germany and France, with lots of hangers on. UK and Germany will never agree, and why should we unless its in our favour, and France will follow who ever treats them the best.
Have the Uk the confidence to leave, well we've won Europe twice ??

[byrney]

Don't you just love conspiracy theories? Makes me wonder why these numpties don't start tackling the crime which daily affects everyone in the UK.

[Challenger 383]

Byrney,  I'm  by no means  legally astute,  you say " so called misdemeanours ".  Now I do not know if this policeman  is astute and knowledgeable  in law enough to back up his accusations  but they seem plausible,  the crime of treason does not carry a fixed time period to be enforced, ie if Lord HawHaw was still alive I would  assume  he could still be taken to court for his crimes against  the Crown and the people of the UK. The  points put across are that that all governments since Heath in 71 are by the very way they carried out their duties are guilty of treason, in that they knowingly  conspired to lie to the people of the UK, to the detriment of our country mens right of freedom and the and the sovereignty  of our nation, by allowing external bodies to  implement  laws and legislation  to supersede  our own law of the land.it's  actually  an interesting  video  to watch, so the point is Bryney, if this is challenged successfully  in a court of law then who knows, we might actually legally not have been   allowed to have been In  the EU in the first place. This one of the reasons why the tory government  WAS and I emphasise  was looking into altering the treason laws, but it has had to suspend  this as it has been legally  blocked from doing so, as this in its  self  is tantermount  to treason and can not be rescinded.

[webejamin]

What many people seem to forget, is that the EU is on a downward slide, much of it due to the Euro€. The likes of Spain, Italy, Greece and now most of Eastern Europe, being a financial drain on the rest, that doesn't help matters. If, knowing what we know now, we could go back to the first referendum, how many would vote to stay in? only a few fools I would think. The UK has no say in EU matters, no influence whatsoever, they make all the rules and laws that we must abide by. As time goes by it can only get worse, (well maybe some like being ruled by Germany) In time we will have no say in anything European, we may even be forced to join the Euro€ :o Scoff and laugh at that one if you like, but just give it time :whistle:
We already see how other European leaders see us and treat our leaders.
So it's either, stay in and become a part of a federal Europe, or get out now while we can. Just imagine in 50 years time and things are not so good, could we get out then? or look for change? with Brussels threatening to bomb the crap out of anyone not towing the line :o Far fetched? maybe, but go back in time and think about it again :whistle:

PS much of the above is fictional and not intended to cause undue concern, a bit Chamberlain'ish I suppose ;)