LOCAL DEMOCRACY, SPANISH STYLE
After 6 years I have left Arboleas Town Hall, and am trying to move on.
However when there are comments here, suggesting that my version of events are not correct, I feel I must explain the situation, not as it is in theory, but how it works in practice.
Obviously with Maura and her colleagues leaving the administration in Albox people will think that this is a sign of lack of agreement in the democratic process there.
I can say that although my reason for leaving has been explained, obviously it was the final straw after years of frustration.
Much has been said about the fact that there is, by law, a Junta de Gobierno every 15 days, on which I and Mike have been members.
What does it do?
1. It approves various licences, which is in reality a rubber stamp exercise. And also the Mayor can, and sometimes has, approved documents without coming to the Junta de Gobierno.
2. It ratifies the payment of bills. However this is for work which has already been authorized and completed, without any prior approval by the Junta de Gobierno.
3. It approves Council projects. However when the project reaches the Junta de Gobierno it has usually been started and often finished. Again a rubber stamp exercise.
I have already commented on the fact that the timetable for carrying out works are never discussed, they seem to be decided by the Mayor on the spur of the moment.
And then there are the contracts signed by the Mayor, none of which are discussed, approved or even reported to the Junta de Gobierno.
I do not know how many there are nor do I have details of all of them.
Here are the few I know about, some of which have come into my possession since leaving the Town Hall.
June 2012. Graysan Improvements to Calle Mezquita. 72.000 euros
July 2013. Asesores Locales SA. Collection of IBI and IVTM. 66,000 euros
December 2011. Technical employee. 67,000 euros
October 2013. Contract for gymnasium.
December 2103. General employee. 26,000 euros
May 2012. Technical services for urban plan. 70,000 euros
2016. Contract for gymnastics classes.
June 2016. Lirola. Contract for Punto Limpio.
¿? Purchase of crystal caves. Cost unknown
?? Puchase of land in El rulador. Cost unknown.
?? Purchase of land for proposed Los Carrascos roundabout. Cost unknown.
2017. Graysan. On street parking next to existing car park. Cost unknown.
There is no suggestion that these contracts are illegal. The Mayor has stated to Costa Almeria News that everything in Arboleas is transparent, because all the contract are filed in the Town Hall archive and anyone can ask to see them.
It is not my notion of democracy or transparency.
I am reminded of what Ford Prefect said to Arthur Dent when an Intergalactic highway demolished his house!!.
____________________________________________________________________________
Anyway as Tetley keeps reminding us, in 18 months we will be immigrants subject to the whim of the Spanish Government, and outside EU regulations, unless there is an agreement to protect those of us with 5 years residency, which is looking more and more unlikely.
I am told by people handling new purchases in Arboleas that there is a big rush from people who are eager to get out of the UK before Brexit. This I do not understand, because they have missed the deadline of 5 year residence to obtain any EU protection.
I am informed that many of these new purchasers in Arboleas are second home owners. In my opinion this is bad news for Arboleas because you cannot run a prosperous town which depends on people using their house for short holidays.
This is the reason I can see long term problems for Arboleas.
Not that it affects me, because I came here when there were only 1500 mostly Spanish.
If it drops to 2500 (which in reality it is already) it will not affect me.
It will just mean a lot of shuttered houses and concrete pavements with no-one to walk on them.
Rog,you left out medical & payments & fees if there is a" No Deal",the under 60,s it may be doo able but over 60,s with Pre Cons could be priced out of Spain.
this would really knock Arboleas on its arse even for holiday homing.
also the 5 year rule is an EU thing,wich may not be applicable on a on deal walk,i think it was the Portugal PM that said any deal aint done until all 27 members have signed it off.
Roger, get over yourself. You've left now move on, you're the only one that can do it.
Why worry about negative comments? You'll always get them on here.
Nibbler
Nibbler , a tiny bit grumpy today !!! Been celebrating columbus a bit early ??
I get the feeling that Roger doesn't want to walk away and feels he still has a commitment to help people that need his help.
Quote from: nibbler on October 12, 2017, 12:58:12 PM
Roger, get over yourself. You've left now move on, you're the only one that can do it.
Why worry about negative comments? You'll always get them on here.
Nibbler
Bit harsh Nibbler lol Rog has invested 6 years localy and had he and others not, then the bulldozers would have rolled in by now. It's still going on in Mijas, Malaga and elsewhere. But yes, maybe time to hang up yer boots and enjoy your retirement. The vast majorty know you're a decent man with honest intentions. And you can count those on one hand across TH's Spain unfortunately.
On the local level I'd be worried as a local; falling populations are the death knell of most villages. Europe is no longer viable, nor is the current politics. There are big changes coming and better places in the word to retire too.
Time to call a halt imho on negotiations and pull out of the EU and get on with the hard Brexit and stop talking about it. Give them 2 months notice, tell them there's no more money, and let's all move on. We've seen how the Greeks were mistreated, and we've seen the disgraceful violence in Barcelona against a largely peaceful population, with a deafening silence from the EU. We can then ramp up terms with the Yanks as they have with Bombardier and tax Fleabay etc at a local rate rather than less than 1% they paid the UK this year for earnings on close to £2 Billion. The Corporations are not going to walk away from UK Markets worth Billions to them, and if they do then Nationalise them. Simples and rake the earnings for UK PLC. Their is nothing in it for us and they are all mugging us off, time we took the gloves off and faced the future. The tail has been wagging the dog for far too long. Then go to individual States to negotiate terms and agreements for their Nationals and tell the EU to get stuffed. imho. You wouldn't tolerate a tooth ache for 2 years, best just get it out.
Maybe Rogers thinking about putting up for Mayor in the next election?
"Maybe Rogers thinking about putting up for Mayor in the next election"?
One word for that ... Brexit.
Quote from: webejamin on October 12, 2017, 14:13:24 PM
Maybe Rogers thinking about putting up for Mayor in the next election?
UKIP could do well Jams locally.... :))
I don't think it's harsh at all. Roger has been a very hard working member of the council and now he has gone Arboleas residents will be worse off,
The council obviously wanted him off so they managed to make his position untenable.
By not accepting this he will only become bitter.
The only way he can move forward is to accept that this is what happens in politics.
Most people in Arboleas supported him but as always not everybody and those who are either criticizing or doubting his word are in the minority.
As it was once said "You can't please all the people all of the time"
Once Roger accepts that he should be able to move on.
Nibbler
JohnJones
Excellent post. :clap: :clap:
Juncker,Barnier and the rest are cutting off their noses to spite their face. Brexit is the beginning of the end of the EU, if the bureaucrats don't / won't accept the ordinary people are being ignored, while their taxes pay for the comfortable lifestyles of said bureaucrats.
Don 't think May is strong enough to tell them to pxxx off .
Hola, Excellent post John Jones, :bravo_2:my sentiments exactly,lets go now,give them the :106:
Awesome post JJ and right on point. Even the MEP's from other countries are telling Juncker,Barnier that we are the only sensible country currently in the bloc and they can't afford to lose us.
Roger, says that two government councils are held a month, you charge 600 euros a month for attending, but it says that he is not decide anything on these boards because everything is approved by the Mayor.
Two questions: why have not you said anything so far? Why did you reappear ni 2015 with that mayor?
The logic makes me think that for two reasons: because you charge for attending meetings and you lie.
You are not an easy horse to tame ... I don't believe you.
:17:
Nice first post toy. To call a man a liar is open to libel. I wont comment further on this disgusting post as i am looking up the meaning of the word pratt in the dictionary
all first posters recently have the same agenda
adios adios
What is Roger's agenda?
Noise and half truths...
Another one of new posters. Well done guys. Keep it up you will have a quorum soon.
Look it up !!
My God, I thought I'd improved my English. I'm sorry, I keep my opinion, I hope I understand.
Roger says that in the councils of government was all decided by the mayor, why not stop attending them?
Ah! maybe because if he was 6 years for 12 months for 600 euros per month has claimed more than 40,000 euros in these years, approximate numbers.
I am not an accountant.
:hee20hee20hee:
Ignore them Raysun, they may have new names but as the past has shown us they are ex embittered members that can only stir.
Nibbler.
Prohibited to speak?
LOCAL DEMOCRACY, SPANISH STYLE?
:sign0144:
Of course you can speak - but remember it is better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and prove it! :NIGHT_1:
Quite right norrie and nibbler, i shouldent reply to them but i dont like to see anyone called a liar by a semi illiterate with a poor command of the english language hiding behind a keyboard .
I suppose when ignorance is bliss its folly to be wise.
by the time toy works out what that means i should have had a few hours sleep.
Politics all over !!!!
Clear cut newbies attacking from the local front !!!!! I get tired looking at posts that are so heated but the writers do not have the "balls" to show their true ID......
Roger has had the courage to speak out on his opinions and clearly cares about the local community
We have no direct relationship but I admire the way he has put his view across over the last couple of months which has clearly led to a stand off.....
I do feel that a number of subjects have become personal but think that this has arisen due to a passion and conviction for transparency which if we stop kidding ourselves, clearly lacks in ALL of the local Town Halls......
We are in the main, "token" visitors to this area and will not really know what goes on unless fluent in Spanish, and understand the real politics !!!!
These are little towns, with little mayors who are now, having their "domains" challenged !!!!
May be good, may be bad ..............
IMOH if you are going to throw stones, be honest and live in a glass house !!!!!!!!!!
:03:
Thanks for the insults!!
:bravo_2:
:kiss:
I will not be posting again on this subject as its all got too heated.
I published this information because I think that people have a right to know how decisions are made on their behalf, including how their money is spent.
If some new members on this forum choose to call me a liar, with the presumed protection of anonymity, without specifying what I am lying about, that says a lot about them.
On the subject of money, I have no problem in people knowing because it is public money.
During the 6 years as a Deputy Mayor I received 95 euros per week after tax.
Because of my personal circumstances (as many will know my wife is disabled) for most of this time I have paid 35 euros per week to a cleaner because I have not had the time to do housework after all the hours spent on Town Hall work.
The interesting point to me is that the attacks on me which this article provoked seem to be in order to cloud the real issue about democratic decisions.
As for why I stayed for so long, it was mainly to see the approval of Innovation 14.
Also for the first 5 years we were still helping many people with their housing problems.
The reason I finally left (or was sacked after a kangaroo court to which I was not invited) is, as I have stated previously, because the Mayor took a unilateral decision to evict the Computer workshop and the gymnastics (both issues which I had a personal involvement in establishing) without any prior information or discussion with the other Councillors.
This was to me the final straw.
It is difficult to walk away quickly after 10 years involvement in local politics, because for many people I am their only point of contact, particularly those house owners who do not live in Arboleas.
So it is taking time to detach.
I am continuing to work with the around 40 Promar clients who are still waiting to have their houses made urban, because I am a signatory to the 3 escrow accounts, and at their insistence they want me to continue.
I will continue to publish information on my web site (arboleaslive.com) about issues which I think are of general interest, such as the huge hike in water charges (around 50% when we were told it had been limited to 18%).
Other than that you will not hear from me again.
The whole population of Arboleas should be proud Roger's work during all these years. He was a very important member of the town hall team. All this is disconcerting. The silence of the council in this forum about some issues does not help.
But, I can't believe that Roger hasn't an agenda....
Link - https://ibb.co/bwRRwG (https://ibb.co/bwRRwG)
Roger, estamos actualizando la pagina web del Ayuntamiento, en ella se colgaran todas las actas de las Juntas de Gobierno y Plenos donde usted ha votado en favor a todo, lo que hoy dice no conoces.
le recuerdo, que las providencias y decretos de Alcaldia se dan a conocer a todos los concejales EQUIPO de gobierno como a la oposicion en los plenos, y es su obligacion haberlo leido.
Roger, in the last few days we have been updating the official website of the Ayuntamiento, on it will be put all the acts, minutes of the Juntas de gobierno ie council meetings and Plenos, Full council meetings, where YOU VOTED IN FAVOUR of everything and that you say today that you dont know about.
I would like to remind you that the ordinances and decrees of the Mayor are made known to all the councillors ie Goverment TEAM, as well as the oposicion in the Plenos ie Full council meetings and is thier Obligation to read them as it was yours.
Blimey Daniel!
Your Spanish is O.K. but your English seems to have gone to pot.
Your spelling, and your placement of commas, full stops and such, seems to be a bit awry!
Just an observation.
If somebody is calling you a liar, Roger, it is time to sue the shorts of them. Been here five minutes and know it all, some folks. Let the ink dry on your NIE before mouthing off, please.
It's true, it's time to sue. Too many insults in a discussion forum.
Difficult to sue people that hide behind pseudonyms and scared to tell members their real name. Which is why they call people liars. Cowardly.
Felipe, thanks for the coward. Should the moderator do meet the standards accepted by all? Do it. :88:
Difference is everyone knows me. No one knows whom you are because you hide.
I will not hide, I use a nickname as many.
Why so much interest in me?
The difference: you are moderator.
:57:
Nope just repeating what others have said. Easy to call people names and liars when hiding.
8 posts and 2 Ignores already........thats class well done :13:
Toy why not come out for a drink and introduce yourself properly. I'd be happy to call you you a cowardly arse to your face...
lets not get to reved up electronic media is only internet key tapped bxllocks,its never gonna change the world.