Winter Fuel Threat

[Cielos]

This has been on the cards for years, what they don't seem to understand is, it can get flipping freezing in Spain in the winter. OK perhaps not for as long as it is in UK, but still need extra heating, and really Spanish houses are not built for warmth, especially the new ones

This last winter was a good example - as late as May we had strong winds and driving rain, along with cold temps more suited to Jan/Feb

Frankly, why shouldn't people who have actually paid into the pot be paid out?

I am tired of people who have never worked and are healthy enough to do so (as well as have multiple kids with various partners) be supported without them having to alter their lifestyles at the older generation's expense.

Given the current welfare expenditure, I don't see how working people in their 20's/30's will actually receive a state pension - the pot will be empty.

[gus-lopez]

"Adding "a couple of quid" to everybodies state pension would cost nearly £1,000,000,000 a year"

Keysersoze, I´m not sure about your figures there.

If every pensioner is entitled to a WFA of £200pa (just short of £4 a week), how can removing that allowance and replacing it with £2 a week per person cost more?

Maybe that´s why I was never asked to be a Government adviser...

Even if it did cost 1 billion a year , that is less than 25% of the amount of interest paid weekly on government debt !

[byrney]

"Adding "a couple of quid" to everybodies state pension would cost nearly £1,000,000,000 a year"

Keysersoze, I´m not sure about your figures there.

If every pensioner is entitled to a WFA of £200pa (just short of £4 a week), how can removing that allowance and replacing it with £2 a week per person cost more?

Maybe that´s why I was never asked to be a Government adviser...

[JessicaH]

If only everyone had to take a hit keyser soze . But unfortunately they are not. This is the first time, that I have ever noticed, that the wealthy are gaining everytime the chancellor speaks.

[keyser soze]

Adding "a couple of quid" to everybodies state pension would cost nearly £1,000,000,000 a year

Hardly a cost cutting exercise

sadly, in these times of hardship, everybody has to take a hit in their finances

[byrney]

As I´ve said before, get rid of the "Winter" bit, but make it means tested to get rid of the likes of Lord S automatically getting it.

Or get rid of the stupid thing totally and put a couple of quid a week onto everyone´s State Pension - a vote-winner if I ever saw it!

[JessicaH]

Which means Gus that only those living top of a mountain in Scotland will get it...and...if the Scots vote YES in the referendum then they won't get it either.
Perhaps this is the motive..we are all aware how devious Governments are where natural commodities are... It's a way to make them vote NO. Lol

[gus-lopez]

It probably won't come to pass for the  same reason that you can claim it from outside the uk now. The EU rules.
You can't differentiate between people abroad & those living in the UK . So if the temperature is coming in to it, then the same will have to apply in the UK , otherwise it is illegal.

[JessicaH]

WFA is NOT a benefit . Benefits have to be claimed. The only claiments are those who left UK, sometimes years, before it came to fruition.

Personally think our Etonian " leaders" , and their counterparts have had a common sense bypass op.  At least they could  be seen to playing fair.
Appreciate the Government have a desparate need to save money but permitting millionaires  like Lord Sugar and Mick Jagger to retain their entitlement whilst pensioner Joe Bloggs who worked all his life for a pittance then moved to another country because he couldn't afford to live in UK anymore is to be denied.

Think it is time for another Wat Tyler .

[zilnor]

I can accept that we pensioners may have to lose our WFA, never mind that the vast majority of us have paid into the UK system for 30,40, 50 years. But what I find hard to accept is that single mothers with more than one child,  in some cases  3,4 or more (often by different fathers), continue to receive benefits for years at a time, without having paid into the system. :head
Modern Spanish houses are built to keep out the intense summer heat, not keep us warm in the winter. We had cavity wall insulation installed but our winter heating bills here, especially the electricity, are as much as in England. Plus the cost of air con and fans in the summer.
According to today´s Daily Telegraph, the average winter temp in Spain is 42 degrees, and in the SW of England, it is 45 degrees. So not much difference really.
Obviously, the average temp would be lower in the north and Scotland. Perhaps you northeners should be campaigning to keep your WFA !  :lol:

[webejamin]

You're all barking up the wrong tree, all these are good ideas, but it's Cameron that should be enlightened, I'm sure he would listen if you were to tell him. Maybe he just doesn't know these things :tiphat:

[benjaminbennett]

This has been on the cards for years, what they don't seem to understand is, it can get flipping freezing in Spain in the winter. OK perhaps not for as long as it is in UK, but still need extra heating, and really Spanish houses are not built for warmth, especially the new ones

[webejamin]

Well, in a couple of years time, when the Tories get back in, they have promised an in-out referendum. Now, before that happens, they will try to negotiate new terms of UK membership. Included in those negotiations will be many "out's" of EU rules for the UK, UK benefits being one of them.
If the negotiations are unsuccessful, a recommendation to leave will then ensue. Then of course it will be "out", ensuring Expats, that life in the sun is not all it's cracked up to be :tiphat:    

[guest4538]

The fuss is not about losing "a few euros a week" as you put it, but the fact that it should not be taken away from those entitled to it - principle and all that-

I'm afraid that you are only entitled to what the law says is due to you! When the law changes, you will no longer be entitled to the allowance!

[Rod]

The UK only pay benefits to us in the EU because they have to, it´s an EU ruling, so how they can take away this one is beyond me.

[rozzieb]

Burney,

The fuss is not about losing "a few euros a week" as you put it, but the fact that it should not be taken away from those entitled to it - principle and all that-

[Lynne]

From what I heard on the news, the problem stemmed from the British who moved abroad, and who weren't entitled to the payout because they hadn't paid enough into the coffers, taking their case to the European Rights court and winning.  That cost the UK so much more money that it was a case of all or nothing - the government subsequently chose nothing - so the ones that had it have lost it because of them. 

[byrney]

Sorry, hotpot, but you really are now talking about a handful of people.

Let´s target the real problem which really will make a difference.

[hotphot]

But hotpot, we are in the EU (at the moment)!

Yes, but it hardly makes sense if ex-pats in the middle east or elsewhere in the world can continue to claim.

[byrney]

Correct Cielos, and, as was inevitable when trying to simplify a ridiculously complex system, created by Civil Servants and their politically correct bosses, there are casualties.

To be honest, I really don´t know what all the fuss is about losing a few euros a week.

I doubt very much that any Forum user will be actually pushed under as a result of withdrawal of the WFA alone.

[webejamin]

"Fat cats are the people who play the tune that the politicians dance to,"

Please give us an example....

Deja vu comes to mind ???

[Cielos]

One thing is for sure, if you think it's getting tough now, wait till the Tories get back in at the next election, then the real cuts will start. Ask yourselves this, "how are the fat cats going to cope?" don't you feel sorry for them :'(

I'll say one thing for Cameron, despite being hampered by Clegg he has at least attempted to cap benefits for those who simply just want to breed and expect the rest of us to go to work and support them

[byrney]

But hotpot, we are in the EU (at the moment)!

[hotphot]

Now don't shoot me if this is wrong but according to some economic pundits on the radio last night WFA will only be stopped in  EU countries where the average temp is higher than the UK. If you are in a hot country outside of the EU then you are still entitled to receive it.

[byrney]

The word "Winter" is the problem.

The allowance is to help people who are struggling with their energy bills.

Does it really matter whether it is for central heating, or air conditioning? 

Whichever, the bills are potentially crippling for some people.

Just call it a fuel/energy allowance - that will take the heat out of the argument.  :lol:

[guest4538]

Happy days -

[zilnor]

cgmaywood, " charity begins at home....."   :clap: :clap:  I fully agree, and I have been saying this for years. If the poorest people actually received every penny of foreign aid sent ( or the majority) I would not object . But, how much of it is taken by the rulers/governments of said countries and used to keep them, their families and hangers on in comfort ?  :head
Graehame, well said !  :wave

[cgmaywood]

Rozzieb you have hit the nail on the head.  They cannot use living in the Sun as a reason not to give it out.  If you have paid your contributions you should have the right to claim it wherever you live.  He is targeting the wrong people.  He needs to look at the benefits he is paying to people who have not contributed anything.  A friend of mine works for a company in the UK who employ a lot of Polish workers, they go to the UK work for two years, start claiming child benefit from the UK for their kids back in Poland who will never go to the UK and once they have finished their contract they go back to Poland and continue to claim Child Benefit.  Wrong in my book. 

I think the Chancellor needs a lesson in economics, I will give him a lesson in how to reduce the deficit, it's not rocket science!!

I see they have not hit the overseas aid budget, charity begins at home in my book!!

Chrissy

[ABRAHAM]

Re taxation the following is taken from the forum read only page

Posts: 689


    Threat to public service pensioners
« on: July 14, 2012, 12:53:54 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ex-pat retired public servants beware! Elsewhere on the Forum it was reported that some MEPs are campaigning to remove the 'compulsory at source' taxation status of UK public service pensions on the grounds of 'discrimination'!

If this campaign succeeds, then ex-pat public service pensioners would pay far more tax, and UK tax payers would pay more for that privilege!

1) For instance the taxes for someone, 70 years old, receiving a public service pension of £10,000 and a state pension of £5587 (£107.45/week), is £1,017.40 in 2012/2013 while living in the UK.

2) By becoming fiscally domiciled in Spain, the same person would have no UK tax on the public service pension (because it is less than the UK personal tax allowance of £10,500), and similarly nothing to pay in Spain on the UK OAP (since it is likely to be less than €10,149, the lowest level for a 70 year old to be paying tax on earned income in Spain). So absolutely no tax to pay: a saving of £1,017.40 by moving to Spain!

3) But if that same person fiscally domiciled in Spain, does not have the benefit of a 'compulsory taxed at source' pension, then all his income is taxed in Spain. Assuming an exchange rate of £1 = €1.25, the Spanish tax would be €2663.78 (or approximately double the tax he'd pay if he were living in the UK).

So, as I see it, the loss of this special taxation agreement would be costly for retired public servants in Spain.

How would it affect you?
THe latest on the withdrawl of winter fuel is that the government has accepted that it will break EU rules to withdraw it, all thanks to the EU

[hartcjhart]

just on BBC that they are on about stopping it in only 7 countries in the eu of which spain is 1, now I dont see how they will be able to get away with that,as the peeps in brussels will have something to say about it

[rozzieb]

Just a point, if you have an entitlement to the WFA, why does it matter where you live ?

[hartcjhart]

well said 'trucker and graeme'
also dont forget that once you acclimatise to the warmer summers the winters WILL be cold wether inland or on the coast,so it is wrong to scrap the payment just because you live in a 'warm' country,
personally I think the gov is just 'playing' to the audience and that the payment will not be scrapped

[laurence24]

"Fat cats are the people who play the tune that the politicians dance to,"

Please give us an example....

[webejamin]

Fat cats are the people who play the tune that the politicians dance to, and they will get fatter and fatter and fatter, as we all get poorer and poorer, it's the "big society" :tiphat:

[laurence24]

Hi, having read all the twaddle on this post, lets get a few things into perspective.

WFA is not a RIGHT, its a benefit to those who are freezing their nuts off, not those who are living in warmer climbs, and not just Spain.

Also, Byrney, if you read or hear the news, there is no need for means testing in the next year, as UNIVERSAL CREDIT is coming in, so need to look at contributions, etc, we will all be the same.

I too have 40 years of "stamp", as I have always worked through having children, and don't see this as my right to all benefits that are on offer.

And as we are not freezing here, what do you all do with the WFA?.

And as for "fat cats", my life, this forum is obsessed with them, what does it mean. Labour has more millionaires than you can poke a stick at, get real......