Devolution Thread

[Tetley]

It won't bother me one way or te other, I live here now, would never dream of going back.

Hopefully you will be able to get dual nationality, then, as if there is a "Yes" vote Scotland will be out of the EU (until, or if,  they are are allowed to re-join) and your right to settle here will be gone. You only have that right as an EU Citizen. A 'Yes' vote means you lose that.

Your statistics only show part of the picture. They do not show the financial 'time bomb' Scotland has with an aging population...and a massive lack of currency reserves. Yes, I am aware the SNP have been saying they can continue to use the Pound just as before, and that there is no problem with EU membership, but anyone with half a brain can look at the facts of both situations and can see major problems. Just because Salmond says it will all be OK does not mean it will be.

You might be heading back to live in Scotland, like it or not.

Rambler we seem to be in some sort of paralel universe with this EU  lark ,when i ask Brits about the repercusions of not been in the EU most seem completly clue less ,2 folks actualy told me with holiday homes here that they were hoping UKIP  made substancial progress and given the chance to vote they would be voting to come out of the EU  as they were sick of eastern Eu folks coming to Britain.

just to remove any doubt If Brits are part of the EU ,you have the same rights as a Spanish citizen,if the Brits or the Scots arnt in the EU  you wont have.

the lights seem on,but no bodys aswering the door............. on this Brit /Scot EU withdrawl .

:tiphat:

[NormanM]

Right to reside in Spain? We who hold British passports will still be British citizens in any event - so where is the risk?

[webejamin]

Sainty, that just goes to prove without a doubt, that the aye's are wrong. If Nessy got out and walked down the road, out of Scotland, what more proof could anyone need :tiphat:

[webejamin]

TBM, just went through GG's face book, of course they have the hump. He put his old labour hat on last night and sounded like a patriot for once, so of course the anti British, anti Zionists, didn't like what he said. whether it was popular or not is irrelevant, it's the truth that matters :tiphat:     

[King saint 76]

Even the Loch Ness monster has relocated to the Lake District...   Worried about a "YES " vote no doubt..

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/loch-ness-monster-creature-photographed-4204637

[PhillipJLloyd]

Can someone explain why when the voting age in Britain is 18, but all of a sudden someone can change that to 16 for their benefit even though when the vote takes place they are still part of Britain, so confused ???
Also how will all this work, if its a yes will they be totally separate with a border crossing, and managing everything the way they want it ??

[ramblarider]

It won't bother me one way or te other, I live here now, would never dream of going back.

Hopefully you will be able to get dual nationality, then, as if there is a "Yes" vote Scotland will be out of the EU (until, or if,  they are are allowed to re-join) and your right to settle here will be gone. You only have that right as an EU Citizen. A 'Yes' vote means you lose that.

Your statistics only show part of the picture. They do not show the financial 'time bomb' Scotland has with an aging population...and a massive lack of currency reserves. Yes, I am aware the SNP have been saying they can continue to use the Pound just as before, and that there is no problem with EU membership, but anyone with half a brain can look at the facts of both situations and can see major problems. Just because Salmond says it will all be OK does not mean it will be.

You might be heading back to live in Scotland, like it or not.

[Three Blind Mice]

Jessica

They give with one hand and take with the other, but the other is taking much more 

The info is out there, google is your friend  :tiphat:

weebejamin

If you go on to GG's facebook page, have a squint at the comments made by his own supporters, they are slaughtering him for his performance tonight.

Most of the people who I have been reading tonight are no voters, he made a fool of himself according to them.

And Fat Eck has pulled a master stroke by allowing the kids to vote, they will decide the outcome of the vote, that audience of kids that were on the tele tonight, they were told by the BBC producers to say they were either voting no or were undecided as the yes had far too much of a majority, it's all over the web, the bias BC, well I never.

Those kids may well know little about politics, they also prob care less about them, but they can see what is happening all around them, they see the lack of jobs, the drugs, the hooker who sells herself for her daily fix, or to feed her kids, they see the depravation, they see the lack of hope, but they know who is responsible, that is why they are voting Yes.

Anyways, facebook will tell you what the kids are thinking, and the torys may well get a shock when the vote comes in, thankfully the vote is on paper.

It won't bother me one way or te other, I live here now, would never dream of going back.

[webejamin]

Personally, I don't give a hootsmon about Scotland and it's inhabitants, but I do care about all the trouble they have caused by having a fall out with us and themselves. It's going to cost us all loadsamoney, and while the jocks are still in the UK we will be paying for their silliness.
If they make a go of it OK, if they don't OK, but what I don't want to see is, when they get into bother, we aint got to bail em out.
I hope they vote "NO" but If they don't, that's their problem.

TBM, of course many people won't like what Georgie boy said, especially if they are yes voters, I'm neither, just an observer, plus he was addressing a bunch of kids that were echoing their parents opinions, not their own, coz they were too young to have an opinion, but they do have a vote on the subject. :tiphat:  

[JessicaH]

If Scotland give more to England then I don't understand why is the tax payer of England giving £27.7 billion to Scotland in subsides.
Just doesn't make sense.

[JessicaH]

Certainly dont think that for, like you,  I have many Scottish friends....here, in England and in Scotland..and none of whom want the " yes" vote to win.
Was mearly replying to the posting by Three Blind Mice who was extolling the wonderful "WE " the People of Scotland.

I just hope however the vote goes the matter is settled, without recriminations, once and for all.

[Three Blind Mice]

Jessica

Scotland gives much more to westminster than is takes out, that is a FACT.

You can make stats say anything you want, but the fact is, if we were a drain on the westminster government they would be siding with the Yes camp.

And I have no idea where you get the notion that scots hate or dislike the english, I certainly don't, my best friends are english.

I probably dislike many of my own countrymen more that the english or any other nation for that matter.

Scotland is full of bigots, they are possibly the ones who you refer to, tho they know not who they are, on one hand they wave their union jack's around while defrauding the government, they do hate the english, but not as much as they hate the Irish, if the truth be know, they just hate.

[byrney]

"why the Scots dislike the English" - I actually don't think that the majority of Scots do dislike the English Jessica.

There will always be a hard core of people who are prejudiced against others whether it be race, religion, football team, posters of the Forum, or whatever.

I have worked alongside many Scots and they were the salt of the earth, so please don't think it's all of them.

[JessicaH]

Here are a few more facts ..how they will equate with that of three blind mice is up to the reader.
Fact
27.7 BILLION £ ..money from tax payers of England goes in subsidies to Scotland.

Of the 5.7 million people living in Scotland there is a higher percentage of woman than men.
Roughly 20% are 16 or younger, 20% are 64 or older which leaves just 57% ( 6.3% being unemployed) which is just over half of the population to pay via taxes towards all services, benefits and pensions of everyone in Scotland.

However what I fail to understand is just why the Scots dislike the English so much when you consider that many millions of people living in England have close Scottish ancestry.
UK is only 600 odd miles long and London and Houses of Parliament are reachable in an hour by air.
Many Scots have been Prime Ministers.
Elizabeth 1 gave the throne to James 6th of Scotland and the Stuarts reigned for 4 generations.

So can someone please explain why it is always a YOU and US scenario.

[byrney]

"The labour party would never ever get a sniff of government without the scottish votes to help them get elected" - thanks TBM - my thoughts precisely.

And the Tories won't want to have to pay the "bedroom tax" on all those empty rooms in the Houses of Parliament - although there'll be plenty of space for all the asylum seekers which Labour so kindly allowed in to England.

[Three Blind Mice]

bryney

All politicians are liars, they care only about themselfs, power goes to their heads.

I well remember back in 1979, when there was a devolution vote, not an indy vote like next week, and they lied to us then.

We were told that the oil would run out by the early 90s, rents would rise by 40% and mortgages by 25%, insurance by 25% and the weekly shopping bill by 50% if scotland voted for devolution.

They lied back then, they are lying today, they have so, so much more to lose now.

Simple question, why does Westminster want to hold on to the jocks?

As for your question about GB, simple sums in reality, the labour party would never ever get a sniff of government without the scottish votes to help them get elected.

He also gives not a jot for the scot in the street, like all politicos, they are in it for themselfs.

[byrney]

Yes TBM, a compelling argument for you Scots to vote "Yes".

However, you seem to be ignoring one of your greatest imports to the Houses of Parliament - Gordon Brown.

He was Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer for many years before becoming Chancellor of the Exchequer for about ten years, and then three years as Prime Minister and Leader of the Labour Party - almost twenty years at the heart of Government, and, as such, one would hope, has a reasonable grasp of the economics of the UK.

Having been a political recluse since his departure from Downing Street, he has come centre stage again to put his weight fully behind a "No" vote.

As a passionate Scot, why on earth would he do this if he hadn't some idea as to what is the best way forward?

[Three Blind Mice]

webejamin

Unfortunatly I never saw the thing with GG, will catch it later.

But reading a few other blogs, virtually to a man and woman, they thought GG made a total tw*t of himself, and these are people who hold him in high regard.

Just sayin like  :tiphat:

[Three Blind Mice]

My tuppence worth.

Scotland has only 8.3% of the UK's population. 8.3%! Remember this important figure... 8.3%

But we DO have...

32% of the land area.
61% of the sea area.
90% of the fresh water.
65% of the natural gas production.
96.5% of the crude oil production.
47% of the open cast coal production
81% of the untapped coal reserves
62% of the timber production
46% of the total forest area
92% of the hydro electric production
40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
60% of the fish landings
30% of the beef herd
20% of the sheep herd
9% of the dairy herd
10% of the pig herd
15% if the cereal holdings
20% of the potato holdings
...obviously 100% of the Scotch Whiskey industry.

We have a...
17 billion pound construction industry
13 billion food and drink industry
10 billion business services industry
9.3 billion chemical services industry
A 9.3 billion tourism industry
7 billion financial services industry
5 billion aeroservice industry
4.5 billion pound whiskey exports industry
3.1 billion pound life sciences industry
Scotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports

We have 25% of Europes wave and wind energy potential.

And finally we are blessed to have 1.5 trillion pound worth of oil and gas reserves.

All of this, yet only 8.3% of The UK's population... Whaow Scotland should be rich!

IGNORANCE...
If you hear anyone saying "I DONT LIKE ALEX SALMOND" or "I DONT LIKE SNP"...
THIS VOTE IS ABOUT SCOTLAND'S RIGHT TO ELECT ITS OWN GOVERNMENT... IT HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH ALEX SALMOND OR THE SNP.
DONT LET POLITICAL IGNORANCE RUIN THIS OPPORTUNITY.

Do you know... This is the UK's legacy of success in our history of being better-together is as follows...

The UK has the 3rd lowest pensions in the 34 OECD countries of the world

The UK has the single most expensive childcare in the European Union

The UK has the second lowest-paid economy in the entire developed world

The UK has the 3rd longest working hours in the EU

The UK has the lowest number of holidays in the EU

The UK has the 8th highest gender inequality pay gap out of the EU's 28 countries

The UK has the highest likelihood of poverty in disablement in the EU

The UK has the highest rail prices in Europe

The UK has the second highest housing cost in Europe

The UK has the highest fuel poverty rates in Europe.

The UK is the 4th highest country of wealth inequality in the entire planet!

But surely these awful figures cannot be possible when you read the following Scottish statistics...

Now, finally, did you also know that in all of the UK's elections for Westminster ever!... Not one vote cast in SCOTLAND has ever mattered! Because of the Westminster numbers, whatever government England votes for, the UK gets. So we have no democracy here!!! 4 decades of tory rule that we voted against is proof enough, and our defiance was punished by the closure of all the mines; closure of all the steelworks; closure of all the shipyards losing hundreds if thousands of jobs. The term used by Westminster's Thatcher when these industries needed some assistance was "let the markets decide". Funny how when the greedy bankers collapsed everywhere they were bailed out to the tune of over a trillion pounds of our money... Not a mention of "let the markets decide".

FACTS:
Fact: Scotland has an oil boom waiting to happen on the West Coast, but Michael Hesaltine signed a cessation of any form of oil exploration in the entire area in the 80′s to make way for nuclear submarines which Scotland doesn't want!

Fact: Scotland has shown its revulsion time and time again to nuclear weapons but they place them here against our countries wishes. A recent contingency report was carried out a out the feasibility of relocating them in Portsmouth. The report stated that it was unfeasible because the detrimental risk to the area of an incident was too high. (Ok for the Clyde though)

Fact: Scotland, with only 1 Tory MP, was forced to take the shocking attack on the poor & disabled called The Bedroom Tax, even though as our nations government, Holyrood voted to utterly reject this awful tax on the poor. Westminster gave us it anyway!

Fact: We are led to believe that the oil in our waters is finished and its a dying industry. Yet 13.5 billion has been invested by oil companies in the last 2 years alone!

Fact: The Clair Oil Field is about to open, and on its own has over 650 million barrels which will be extracted over 20+ years with production reaching a hundred thousand barrels a day!

Fact: Scotland gives more to Westminster than it gets back. Do you really think they'd be so keen to keep us if we were being subsidised like they'd have us believe?

Fact: Westminster has amassed over £1.3 trillion debt and still growing at nearly £6000 a second. Thats another £516 million today alone which YOU will have to pay for.

Fact: Of the 178 countries that have gained their own independence across this planet, not one single one of them has ever asked to reverse this independence, and very few of them have the assets we have.

SCOTLAND, WHAT ARE WE SCARED OF? WE HAVE A CHANCE... WITHOUT A SINGLE BULLET BEING FIRED, WITHOUT A SINGLE DEATH... TO GET OUR FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS PUT A CROSS IN THE YES BOX.

SCOTLAND, ITS TIME TO STAND UP AS A NATION AND VOTE YES ON THE 18TH OF SEPTEMBER... AND BECOME A FREE AND CARING NATION AGAIN!!!

[webejamin]

Just been watching gorgeous George on telly at the yes/no thing with all the school kids. first of all, I can't stand the man, but, of all the politicians, experts, wigs and wags, he is the only one to tell it how it is. All the trash talked to those youngsters, and he knocked em all into a cocked hat.
The only politician to have anything sensible and truthful to say about the yes/no referendum  :clap:  :tiphat:

[BassBunny]

I agree about the banks and others "saying" they will move out, but I don't believe they will, they already said they will keep all their offices and staff. It's all aimed at the staff to vote no if they think they might lose their jobs. In fact I don't believe anything that's being spouted so far, only the fact that yes will be a dumb move :tiphat:

This sums it up quite nicely and EVERYONE who has a vote should be aware of it.
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/measure-big-indyref-risks/2311
The thing is if the banks DO relocate their HQ's, and go bust, rUK will be expected to pick up the pieces.
It appears to be a very shrewd move to allow 16 yr old's to vote, as having just watched some yougsters being interviewed on the news, their attitude is that it is all scaremongering and they will be fine.
The older generation are realists and know what would be in store if there was a Yes vote.

[casablanca]

Politicians have not been trusted for quite sometime and this trust continues to dimish, for all parties. There are many reasons for this, one of which is that the electorate are more aware of what they are "about" nowadays with the enforced increased transparency etc.
Salmond, not unlike Farage, has climbed on the back of this and done it very well. He is somehow convincing the electorate that he and the SNP, once they have full control of Scotland , will not be like other politicians. I am afraid if it's a yes vote and he begins to have to take real responsibilities, he will find he has to behave like all the others, in short, pander to big business and sod the plebs. He is a very clever politician, continually pointing the finger at the inadequacies of "Westminster", not difficult, and lowering the voting age was also a master stroke, but that doesn't mean he is making the right decisions for Scotland.
However, I do believe that either way Scotland will be OK, they are a resourceful nation.

[webejamin]

I agree about the banks and others "saying" they will move out, but I don't believe they will, they already said they will keep all their offices and staff. It's all aimed at the staff to vote no if they think they might lose their jobs. In fact I don't believe anything that's being spouted so far, only the fact that yes will be a dumb move :tiphat:

[Babyboomer]

........ i bet the queen is having sleepless nights along with Camron whom will go down on a yes vote as the bloke that lost /cost the British union because he" wouldn't get in among it and just sat back ".........

Cameron said it all yesterday when he said "this is not a General Election where you can ditch the F...ing Tories''  Too little too late Tetley.

[Tetley]

The thing is westminster has been asleep on the job ,the PM,s of the day should have been up in Scotland once every 3 months,in local shops,factorys,pubs,winning hearts and minds and giving the scots more day to day powers.

i bet the queen is having sleepless nights along with Camron whom will go down on a yes vote as the bloke that lost /cost the British union because he" wouldent get in among it and just sat back "

Thatcher would have been stood in the street corners debating as did Prescott yesterday.  :clap:

its going to be very close,but the worst part is it will split the Scotts on the streets for a genaration either way.

:tiphat:

[Babyboomer]

The Yes campaign looks to be on a high accusing Downing Street (Treasury) of a deliberate leak to papers and BBC of market sensitive information. Releasing the RBS contingency to move there registered office to London. Not sure he is right about it been market sensitive information and hence shoud not be released.
He also made hay of the BBC reporting gaff saying Lloyds also might move its registered office to London when it has been registered in Gresham Street for years. Just had a no voter staying with me and they are very apprehensive if the Yes campaign wins.

I agree with a previous poster that it puts paid to the UK on the world stage - it will definately in terms of influence become 2nd or 3rd class. Stormy days ahead  *&"

[ramblarider]

Looks like pretty much the entire financial sector with head offices in Scotland is getting ready to pack up shop and move South in the event of a 'Yes' vote LLoyds, RBS, Standard Life...

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/sep/11/rbs-will-leave-scotland-yes-vote

[webejamin]

I suspect it's got nothing to do with a real desire for the people to "go it alone". There's probably a few billionaire fat cats, pulling Salmonds strings, that see a way of making a few more billion in an independent Scotland. I don't believe the ordinary working Scott has a better or worse life than us English, Welsh, or N.Irish, but they've been duped into thinking that Scotland will be the promised land if they vote yes. :tiphat:   

[inbetweeners]

I have watched all this drama unfold on the tv etc, and all I can see is a man whose ego is so big, he wants to win the vote no matter what the cost, and he says he loves scotland, I hope the scotish people see through his ego trip and stay part of the union,,

[JohnJones]

 ;)

http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland/video-england-fans-give-their-view-on-independence-referendum-with-chant-1.566558

[webejamin]

There also seems to be provision for another vote, even if the no's win. It's "if" the UK vote out  ??? "if" there's a vote on the EU  ??? So it aint going away soon, whatever happens I wonder who's budget, all the costs of all these referenda comes out of? our money, whoevers budget >
   

[doreen1]

My husbands cousin lives in Scotland, he isn't too worried about there being a YES vote. He says in their family and friends circles there is a rational logic that it would be madness to leave the Union. He likes to think that yes, people like the notion of independence but it just doesn't make sense.
He says his problem with the NO campaign is there isn't enough info out there for the common man/woman to comprehend.

[Tetley]

I think UK PLC  head office has a major problem at the mo ,as a media type said,if it goes through and it separates no body on the world stage is going to take mutch notice of the all new English & welsh & NI   fishing villages.......... :whistle:


intresting times  ,morning citizens   :tiphat:

[webejamin]

Getting back to reality, after hearing all the politicians and experts arguing their points, there's one thing I am assured of, that's the fact that nobody knows what will happen to Scotland, it's all aspirations and guesswork. The Scott's seem to have been whipped up into a frenzy of nationalism, but don't really have a nation. It's all "a chance" they're taking, there's not enough certainty about any of it, wait till winter, see how they feel then. :tiphat:

[byrney]

Oh no Doreen, we don't want any trouble from you lot across the Irish Sea as well.  We're doomed.  ;)