Devolution Thread

[doreen1]

 :lol:
Now boys stop making me laugh I'm trying to be in a bad mood.... pmt

[byrney]

Come on Webe, don't bring the French into this.  There's enough problems North of the border....

[webejamin]

The more I see about the political battle on the telly the more I wanna laugh ;D Those three politicians climbing the steps today to give a speech ;D and the woman was nearly fainting trying to speak after the climb ;D  ;D ;D
And that Salmond bloke I fink he's turnin into a frog :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[doreen1]

 :lol:

[webejamin]

And just to add a little humour ;D
The entrance to a Scottish polling station

[doreen1]

 :rofl:

[webejamin]

But we woz avin nun of it :redcard:

[doreen1]

Scottish navy attacks Woolwich ferry in broad daylight

:rofl:

[webejamin]

Scottish navy attacks Woolwich ferry in broad daylight

[BassBunny]

This was published on the 10 June in The Scotsman.  It's well worth reading.

"Hardship alert

I am a Norwegian who has been living in the UK for ten years and I understand the SNP looks at Norway as an example of how Scotland will be after independence. I have a number of friends in Scotland, love a good whisky and think the Scottish Highlands rival the beauty of my native country.

However, when pro-independence Scots look to Norway as a role model it's obvious that they only see what they want to see and largely ignore the facts. It took us a long time to accumulate the wealth we now enjoy, and it wasn't just a result of oil. Remember also that Norway voted on its independence in 1814, and the financial depression in the years that followed was the worst on record.

Our GDP per capita was consistently lower than Sweden, Denmark and indeed the United Kingdom every year since records began in the early 1800s until 1974. The few things that kept us going were unity, national pride and stupidity.

If Scots are willing to go through decades of hardship in order to build their own country, then fine, but no-one should assume that independence is a silver bullet that will automatically transform Scotland into Norway.

It is also worth considering the downsides of living in such a wealthy country as consumer prices in Norway are astronomical. VAT stands at 25 per cent, you pay £9 for a pint in the pub, and the price for a new, five-door Vauxhall Corsa is £20,490 (in the UK the same car is £9,600).

This is fine if you are a top earner, but I am sure no-one in Scotland believes that becoming independent will automatically lead to an accumulation of enormous personal wealth for the entire population.

Finally, if an independent Scotland succeeds it will be because it is totally united. When Norway wanted independence 99.5 per cent of the population voted Yes.

I don't see that sort of unity in Scotland today, and for that reason alone there should not be a referendum at all.

Haakon Blakstad

Moore Street

London"

Absolutely spot on. There are a few people who have sussed out what Independence would really mean and that is decades of austerity far worse than the UK is going through at the moment. Most think it will be instant Utopia and have been sucked in to hype.
The numbers just don't stack up. A population on 5 million of which approx 2 million will be pensioners or youngsters. Take off the ones on benefits and how can those left support the welfare system and NHS that Salmond is proposing.
Added to that the already mentioned issues of EU membership, Currency etc. and it doesn'appear that rosy. If it's a Yes, does the money we pumped into Scottish Banks then aso become their responsibility? The UK Bank Guarentee scheme won't apply to any Scottish banks if there is a Yes vote, so who would want any money banked with them.
Also there are 120000+ non-uk europeans, ie Spanish, German etc. that are resdident in Scotland and have a vote, but Scots not living there are excluded. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
Finally, has anyone asked the Queen if she wants to be kept as Head of State for an Independant Scotland?

[webejamin]

 ;D ;D ;D

[jodee]

:lol:

[Tetley]

Jamms i fink Queen   LIZZY should be ok   :handshake  ,plus she might get the wheeli Bin empted once a week up there as well   ;D

morning citizens,turned out nice again 

[webejamin]

Coulda worded that different byrney, it's "us", that will be lumbered with an inevitable Tory gov.uk. "Them" never "suffer" from nuffink, only "us"  :tiphat:

That's anuva fing Tetley, who's queen will she be? queen of England, or queen of Scotland? Will she get her heatin allowance Up in Scotland? coz it won't be in the EU will it, and the old pension, no increases  :o Or maybe they'll make a special hardship case out of it? ???
Anuva fing :o wot about the union flag? well ave ta dump em all an get new ones wivowt blue on it, innit :o more bleedin money fer some bleedin fat cat flag maker :o I knew there wos a reason fer all dis appenin > innit ???

[musicdonna]

This was published on the 10 June in The Scotsman.  It's well worth reading.

"Hardship alert

I am a Norwegian who has been living in the UK for ten years and I understand the SNP looks at Norway as an example of how Scotland will be after independence. I have a number of friends in Scotland, love a good whisky and think the Scottish Highlands rival the beauty of my native country.

However, when pro-independence Scots look to Norway as a role model it's obvious that they only see what they want to see and largely ignore the facts. It took us a long time to accumulate the wealth we now enjoy, and it wasn't just a result of oil. Remember also that Norway voted on its independence in 1814, and the financial depression in the years that followed was the worst on record.

Our GDP per capita was consistently lower than Sweden, Denmark and indeed the United Kingdom every year since records began in the early 1800s until 1974. The few things that kept us going were unity, national pride and stupidity.

If Scots are willing to go through decades of hardship in order to build their own country, then fine, but no-one should assume that independence is a silver bullet that will automatically transform Scotland into Norway.

It is also worth considering the downsides of living in such a wealthy country as consumer prices in Norway are astronomical. VAT stands at 25 per cent, you pay £9 for a pint in the pub, and the price for a new, five-door Vauxhall Corsa is £20,490 (in the UK the same car is £9,600).

This is fine if you are a top earner, but I am sure no-one in Scotland believes that becoming independent will automatically lead to an accumulation of enormous personal wealth for the entire population.

Finally, if an independent Scotland succeeds it will be because it is totally united. When Norway wanted independence 99.5 per cent of the population voted Yes.

I don't see that sort of unity in Scotland today, and for that reason alone there should not be a referendum at all.

Haakon Blakstad

Moore Street

London"

[byrney]

I think that Gordon Brown (remember him?), and his Labour mates have suddenly wised up to the fact that, come a "Yes" vote, they will have total power in Scotland, (with no-one else to blame for future problems), whilst leaving them with forty-odd less seats in Westminster and an inevitable Tory Government.

Interesting times indeed.

[Tetley]

I just hope once Ali Salmond tec,s over, the new rate,s man dont Jack Queen Lizzys castle tax up...... :o  ti pay for all the new  Himprovments .

new coloured seats should look nice tho on Prince less street .......    :drinks:

O0

[doreen1]

It's the heat Webe, people not sleeping at night getting up " krankie ".  :D

[webejamin]

Fink we're all a bit krankie :crazy:

[Lizzie1201]

the worst bit tho,is the SNP  no2 looks like Jannet Krankie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Tetley]

Its getting realy scarry now......... :o the pressi of the Ukrain is press confrensing in Army green   AND  Gorden Browns floggin the no vote in          " X em lets do it land"

looks like its time ti get the Jimmi Hendrix LP,s on  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwnmmz1S37o

the worst bit tho,is the SNP  no2 looks like Jannet Krankie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7I313EuvBk     ;D

[ramblarider]

Just as a matter of interest, I wonder how a yes vote will affect us normal, UK people? Other than an easier way in for all and sundry, coz we never had a land border before.

Value of £ will slide dramatically.

The UK is legally obliged to enforce border controls. They will have to put effective measures in place - just as between the US and Canada.

They cannot have a completely open border with a non-EU state.

[webejamin]

Just as a matter of interest, I wonder how a yes vote will affect us normal, UK people? Other than an easier way in for all and sundry, coz we never had a land border before.
My mate Jock, he's Scottish ;D reckons most of his friends in Scotland claim to be yes men and women, but will in fact, vote no ???

[MELEE]

If Salmond wins, how long before he announces that he is the new King Of Scotland. :)

judging by his ego - probably the same day :lol:

[gingernut]

London,Manchester,Birmingham and many more places will be a lot cleaner,quieter when all the jocks go back up north if the vote is yes,and there won't be so many empty cider bottles in the streets :drinks:and they won't need so many cops :lol:

[felipe]

If Salmond wins, how long before he announces that he is the new King Of Scotland. :)

[ramblarider]

The fact that Scots who live abroad were disenfranchised is an absolute disgrace.

These are the very people who are most likely to really grasp the issues and at the same time, would be most affected. Excluding them from the vote is so extreme, I am surprised there has not been an outcry on this issue. Apathy? Who knows... they are facing life-changing decisions in which they have been given no say.

[Tetley]

The Isle of Man has special status - this was negotiated and agreed, and anything similar for Scotland would require the agreement of all EU countries, including Spain... which would not be forthcoming.... indeed, their proposed membership would even require referendums to take place in some other member countries before membership could be permitted. That could be messy process... and would not be quick, with a very unpredictable outcome.

The IOM is a member of the EEA, a status Scotland would lose if they gained full independence.  The practical implications of that are mind-boggling. I suspect the reality of it would not really hit home until people and businesses in Scotland wanted to travel to, or buy or sell from the rest of the EU - including England.

I understand thar RR  im talking more street level , the people are very proud to be Indi where as with a close Scots vote  people may not share the same pride ,unless of coarse Brother Salmond has that mutch talked abought political majic wand and the county booms under indi nesss.....but dosent bust as the Irish Tiger did.

spin the wheel  not long now....   :)

[webejamin]

Spot on Hogsy me boy, particularly regarding the 16 year old vote.
It's already costing me money > with the £ dropping against the $  > must be affecting the € for you people :o
Last week Mrs webe said "lets change some money up" I said "nah, we'll wait till next week" :-[

[ramblarider]

The Isle of Man has special status - this was negotiated and agreed, and anything similar for Scotland would require the agreement of all EU countries, including Spain... which would not be forthcoming.... indeed, their proposed membership would even require referendums to take place in some other member countries before membership could be permitted. That could be messy process... and would not be quick, with a very unpredictable outcome.

The IOM is a member of the EEA, a status Scotland would lose if they gained full independence.  The practical implications of that are mind-boggling. I suspect the reality of it would not really hit home until people and businesses in Scotland wanted to travel to, or buy or sell from the rest of the EU - including England.

[Tetley]

Another intresting over veiw Rambler, 2 things i rember abought the 70,s was the power cuts and the common market,it seems completly barking to me for the scots to leave the EU  if the indi vote goes through,and even more barking that the scotts dont get to vote as an x pat.

i can understand the frustration of been run by an un elected tory government ,but there are plenty of scots mp,s voting in the house of parls so to me it seems a sledge hammer to bust a political  nut.

anybody that goes to the Isle of Man can see it works as an independent ,if you talk to the Manx folks there proud to be indi ,however the Scotland lark will be a diffrent ball game ie because of the close ness of the vote ,and the divisions it will cause.(either way )

very very intresting  :tiphat:

[ramblarider]

The question I have is (as with all public votes), how many people voting 'Yes' truly, really understand what that will mean?

Do they know, for example, that at every airport they will no longer be able use the EU Citizen 'fast track' line, but will have to join the line of non-EU passengers?

Do they know that they will no longer be able to order things from the EU without customs clearance formalities?

Do they realise they will only be able to enter the EU on a strictly regulated visa? No more easy come, easy go? That their 'right' to live and work in the EU (including England, Wales and NI) will be.. gone?

It seems to me that this has never been put over properly, so you have people (again) voting for things where they simply don't understand the full consequences of their decision.

Salmond has said they will remain in the EU. They won't. They will be out and will have to re-apply. Spain is highly likely to veto any re-joining. In any event, re-joining could take 5-10 years.

Two other effects.... if they do leave, this tips the Lab-Con balance in the UK parliament towards the anti-EU camp making a full UK exit more likely. On the other hand, when they see the mess the Scots will be in when they leave, it might have the opposite effect. Who knows..

[macc]

Let the games begin.

[zilnor]

Jumbo theScot's post says it all as to why Scotland should remain in the UK.  :tiphat: :clap:
Salmond is on an ego trip and will not be around to see the disastrous results if the Yes voters win. Five million people in Scotland !   How on earth does he think that the taxes generated by the percentage of those 5 mill who will be actually working, will cover all costs ? As to the oil revenue, the oil companies will still want their share. Etc etc.
My maternal grandmother was born and brought up near Glasgow. She would have definitely voted No to any split !

[StellaL]

I haven't read the offending post so am unable to comment on it. However I thought Jimbo's post reflected what hopefully the majority of sensible Scots will be thinking and that we can keep the union.  However, if the Scottish Nationilsts get their way could anybody tell me whether all the Scots working and living in England will become illegal immigrants and will they require work permits, assuming they are allowed to remain in the England. Also will all MPs representing seats in Scotland be banished from Parliament? Trivial little points I know but indicative of many things that have never been discussed.  I sincerely hope it is a "NO" vote, but am fearful that the young people of Scotland can't see the big picture. Another thing which seems to be overlooked is the impact this would have on the people of Wales and Northern Ireland.