IBI ?

[bombero]

I have a flat on costa calida(Murcia) and the IBI is €137, Do not know what it will be in arboleas.

[andie]

ok Roger thank you for your overwiew , once i have the postion confirmed i will be in touch .  S   :tiphat:

[Roger]

Saffi is quite correct.
When you bought your old property Steve it was the only one around you.
Now you are in the middle of an Urban estate.
The Town Hall has to properly register the street names and house numbers.
Most houses have just got builders plot numbers, which is shown on their escrituras.
As for what the Spanish think.
Well most affected Spanish are in La Perla and El Prado, which now find their old houses surrounded by new British houses. And with new roads having been built.
Some ignore what is going on, and shrug their shoulders.
Others say, that's very sensible, and come in to the Town Hall to re-register. I know this is happening because the Reception often refer them to me to explain. (Which I manage to do very well in Spanish Steve.)

[Saffi]

Titch, when you become urban the Town Halls take over the numbering system to make it logical for them and often they will rename streets too, or give streets a name......if you are already urban then it changes because you then have to fall in to line with the changes made around you.  I know of one house whose number changed from number 3 to 2, now that seemed to me to be utterly ridiculous when they could have just made the house with no number a number 3 as that would have made sense numerically in that street.  

I suspect the spanish just shrug.

[andie]

i havent asked yet as thair is only one sp neibour,but i will be doing !  ;)

S   :wave

[Titch]

Why did existing adresses for legal urban prperties need to be changed?

Surely, those with builders/constructors addresses should be the only houses to need an address from the town hall.

Andie-what do your spanish neighbours think?


Titch

[HogRider]

My comment is that even if it goes as high as 400/500 euros a year, this is a lot less than I was paying in UK, in 2006,  around £2500 a year. No probs !! :wave :wave

Rozlin

Go a sit on the naughty step for giving the Mayor anymore silly ideas !

Hogs :tiphat:

[andie]

O dear Roger here we go again.
i ask cival questions and you start getting all defensive again.

1 ) my house has a full adress with 2 deeds URBAN  ,my lawyer is  M  davies mojacar,and the previous  owner is our  area JP & Judge both very credable "un made up individuals" ,i think dont you.( plus the origanal adress is used on all " issued town hall paperwork" in connection with the house from day 1 )

2 ) the 200e council tax payment was floated to me around my kitchen table last september ,by a KEY  helpdesker   ;)  ;) nudge nudge
in fact the bloke had it all worked ,how mutch he could get in.

3 ) so are you now saying that my official house number and adress never existed,even though it is on every peice of legal paper inc hab cert,bollatins,deeds plus all my family paperwork here  in spain,

IE  cars ,utilitys,tax,employment,medical,ni,education,banking ect ,and that the help desk / members have the legal power to change it in law, ?and  also the help desk / members are thairfore responsible in law for any in inacuracy ?

thanks

Steve  :tiphat:

[digifidd]

I think Steve's concern is a valid one.  Knowing the Spanish inability to organise administratively with the required thoroughness, I would be worried that I have a new house number and potentially a new bill being raised whilst already paying some level of ibi on an old address (made up or otherwise).  

For example, I am paying basura and can prove it at the Ayuntamiento with bank statements, but they are insisting that I have not been paying it despite the evidence being in black and white.  Administrative incompetance is a polite way of putting it!!

If you are saying Roger that your help desk ministrations have enabled you and your helpers to marry old address/references of current payees to the new house numbers given then that is great.  I'm sure it is just that Steve doesn't want to be paying twice on one property - seems fair enough to me.  No one wants to pay more than they really have to.  Neither should Steve have to pay extra to get his old paperwork married up with the new house numbers, when everything was set up and working fine and dandy.

Perhaps he just needs gentle reassurance that this is indeed the case, assuming that it is of course.

As for increases in IBI, I think that this is inevitable given the dire financial straits most of the local town halls find themselves in, through both previous maladministration and the economic downturn squeezing everyone.

[Saffi]

Your house number does not change your catastro number.  However, normally when your land status changes from rustic to urban then your catastro number also changes. All catastro values have been changed in Spain, its not a local thing and in some cases by such a significant amount the increases are being phased in (eg Vera, Pulpi).  To be on the safe side you should allow 200 euros per year for when you were rustic or not urban, then 400 euros per year if you were urban.  The law allows your local Town Hall to go back 4 years so allow that, but I expect a special deal will be agreed.

[HogRider]

The more relevant question would be, why does the Town Hall have to rely on an army of unpaid Brits to do the job, when they have an even bigger army of paid Spanish sitting on their backsides doing nothing.

Answer. Because the Town Hall does not care about the problems in the barriadas.

Just as a matter of public interest Roger does anybody actually know how many 'employees' the Council has and what their job descriptions are (apart from being related to influential dignitaries ? Wild conjecture and a suspicious mind on my part ! :rofl:)

Hogs :tiphat:

PS And if they don't care about barriades problems, they won't care about collecting our money to prop up their nice little earner !

[Roger]

Steve,
If you bothered to read what we post you would not need to ask as many questions.
first. The IBI of 86 euros is what many people are paying (if they are paying). But these have not been revised for many years. The figure of 200 euros is quoted by the Mayor.

Second. You have never had an official house number or an official road name, until we at the Help Desk did the work. Whatever some abogado made up to go on your documents were just that. Made up.
All the missing road names are submitted by the Help Desk to the Mayor, and are then approved by the full Council meeting.
We have been officially requested by the Mayor to issue everyone with a house number. He wanted us to go around with the local police with a pot of paint, but we vetoed that suggestion.
We discussed with the Mayor the rules regarding house numbering, which he has approved.

The more relevant question would be, why does the Town Hall have to rely on an army of unpaid Brits to do the job, when they have an even bigger army of paid Spanish sitting on their backsides doing nothing.

Answer. Because the Town Hall does not care about the problems in the barriadas.

[andie]

also Roger can you confirm that the Arboleas help desk / members  took on the responsability ( legaly )  of re numbering the houses
thanks
Steve   :tiphat:

[andie]

just to confirm th ibi bill,s that ive seen for Arboleas area,are from 50 to 86e ie town houses farm houses,villas,ive got bills in front of me know going back from the present to 4 years.

when i whent into the town hall on sevral ocassions to ask abought ibi over the years i was told to put 300e away to cover 5 years,i also asked my lawyer to sort ,he seid,put 400e away  and thay should cover it.

has anybody else out thair got an older house thats been re numbered ? with now non matching paperwork (if you have please e mail  holme12@yahoo.co.uk )
thanks
Steve   :tiphat:

[carsons1947]

As you say it is a guesstimate which is all that can be given, but it is a pretty safe bet that when the rates are revised they will go up quite a bit.

Since I have no way of knowing what property people have I give a wide band.  It could be a one bed cottage or an eight bed palace with granny annexe for all I know.

The stated two year bill could turn into a three or four one. If two stretches to four, your set aside E4-600 might or might not cover it.

I take the better safe than sorry view.  

Nothing is fixed, anything could happen.  

[andie]

Steve

I thought the new numbering thingy was only for us peeps out in the sticks not you peeps in the town ?  Sorry if I've got it wrong. 

Hogs :tiphat:

so did i Hogs,acording to huncle Rogers team ive been re numbered   :wave S

[HogRider]

Steve

I thought the new numbering thingy was only for us peeps out in the sticks not you peeps in the town ?  Sorry if I've got it wrong. 

Hogs :tiphat:

[andie]

Roger
on my other point.
my house and all my legal paperwork in spain including deeds utility bills, hab cert cars,road tax ,tax,employment,health padrons nie,s education are all registered correctly to match my deeds,now with your new system,i have been given a diffrent house number, even tho the house is 15 years old and i assume the ibi will be payed using that new house number,leaving no ibi payments registered to all my existing paperwork,surley this will cause problems if i ever whant to sell the house in the feture as the ibi wont match the deeds ?

genuine question (as thay all are )

S  :tiphat:

[HogRider]

AndyH

Makes you wanna spit !  Still as and when it does get sorted in Arbiland as long as its a single tier charge and not a 'two tier spank the newcomers' charge I shall be pleased to pay it !

Hogs

PS Mr Mayor, by the by, I don't want street lamps ! Not very eco friendly and will keep the goats awake in our little bit of 'Rural Spain' Hogs  !

PPS Thank you Roger for your reply ! Friends of ours in Los Higuerales that are paying IBI which is nearer Steve's figure, they have a 3 bed dwelling with a bit of land, than the €200-300 in Carsons estimate.  So I suppose it must be asked, what is that realistic estimate based on ? Don't mind it being a guesstimate , I'm just trying to get me ducks in a row !

[Roger]

I will try to give a serious answer to the question, as best I am able.
Arboleas Town Hall now has the power to issue catastral registrations. I was told in January that they were putting this work in the hands of a company in Malaga. So far nothing has happened. At the same time Albox Council are doing their own, one lad in a office. So we do not know when Arboleas will get it sorted.
The Council can back date any payment by up to 4 years.
The Mayor has said that no decision has been made, but he believes it should be backdated one year.
As for the amount.
It depends on the habitable space in the house mainly, and partly also on the land etc.
So everyone will be different. You cannot assume the 86 euros quoted by Steve. I think, but cannot be sure, that the new figures will be on current valuations which will be higher. Possibly 200 euros.
This is the figure I was paying 12 years ago on a 3 bed house on the coast in Valencia.

Of course, I stress, that there is no sign of anything starting in Arboleas.

[carsons1947]

The rates system is going to have a revision.  It was supposed to be this year, but so far no sign.

The rateable values of buildings and land will be worked out on a set scale by size.  No figures have been given as yet but it is expected that those already paying rates are likely to get an increase.

I usually tell people to set aside E2-300 per year, as a realistic estimate.

The Mayor has stated several times that they are entilted to go back 4 years but that he intended to recommend to Council that it would only bill for the current year and one year back.  He used to say that the back tax could be paid in two instalments. He no longer says this.  

I would say that Andie's figures are unrealistically low.  I am sure Roger will give his view when he has time.

[AndyH]

Beats the poll tax (sorry, Maggie) "council tax" in the UK.

Just had my bill arrive. 950 quid..... for a place about 10 times smaller than we have in Spain.

Fortunately, now claiming 6 month "free" period, while we sell it.

What a total rip off.... happily pay the IBI compared to that.

I was on the 'phone to them today. Quite pleasant they were, actually. Asked about the weather here, etc., and even if we had "council tax". I told 'em we did. It was called IBI and what we paid. She said "That's a month, right"?  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Andy

[andie]

Hogs  :wave
i think thairs a H in Hestimate   ;D

[HogRider]

Ok Steve

Thanks for the estimate but I suppose I should wait for Rogers view before I rush out and squander whats left of my pot on more american V twin machinery ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Hogs :tiphat:

[andie]

Hogs  :wave
fear not !
1500m2 land,pool,105m2 build  villa in Sargaleas  86e per year the council can back date 5 years if they wish,but  i think Bro Roger said its down to the council,and they had said 2 years back inc current,so looks like 190e ish for 2 years then probably 90e a year thair after.

one stumbling block could be tho,if yer deeds address and ibi  receipts  address and all yer legal paperwork  for the house don't match up,
could be a feture earner for some one when its house sale time ie paying ibi on one number with no record of payment on yer own officially registered ( as per yer deeds ) house,unless thair going to re do all the deeds as well so it all matches up.  :o

S  :tiphat:

[HogRider]

Roger
At the Los Higeurales meeting at the town hall can you refresh my memory did you or the Mayor say as to when we may be getting this tax demand and was any amount speculated upon ?  I'd begun to loose the will to live at that point when some village residents seemed to be more interested in who clears rubbish from empty plots and a pile of dirt that's been dumped by one of the builders  :crazy:

Ta Much

Hogs