Seems like it has been finally passed. Onwards and upwards, all positive ✌️
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/23845601_1460587247391637_7840491191979313499_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=b58ac8129e2b6e6e69ed2de4feb7ffd3&oe=5AD71F8A
The TEAM has done Very well.
Great news. A big step in the right direction for those 290 plus villas. Good work Town Hall.
Its great news, but now all the hard work starts for the town hall in getting the builders to carry through their obligations to those that have alreay paid everything up front- I only hope this can be sorted as I know there are people who are talking of having to sell cheaply as they cant afford to pay the costs that will be incurred when getting all the paperwork - sad state of affairs when they have already paid up front for their homes nd want to stay in Arboleas.
So we have 3 comments on the Good news posted by the town hall team
and masses of comments & negativity on the precived" lack of local news".....on the other thread.
no wonder they dont post mutch.
Quote from: El Presidente None of the Above on November 23, 2017, 09:56:37 AM
Yeah but Tetley 10 of the comments on the other thread came from you alone!!!!!
is this befor they were removed or is it plus the removed....anyway mine are just ramblings of an old un educated yorkshirman & failed entrepreneurs LOL.
i thought all the bright folks would have been out in force to congradulate the town hall team on the grate news that Arboleas is moving forward.
Yes great news indeed. Now lets have ongoing updates on the rest of the problems which are indeed massive and will really take some really hard work by the town hall to get sorted.
will take years i think.
However this is a great start so well done the town hall.
I estimate it will cost the builders around 1000 euros per house for the various technical documents.
It will be more if they do not have registered escrituras for the land or enough land to cede to the Town Hall.
If the builders are not cooperative this could fall on the residents.
Then for the residents it will cost around 3000 to 4000 euros for the certificate of occupation and the notary and registration tax, not including lawyer's fees of around 1000 euros.
Some of this may be paid by the builders, but not likely.
They will then have to budget for back dated IBI, around 1000 euros.
A lot of this could possibly be paid in stage payments.
In total it is not a lot compared the value of the property. The problem for many is that they were not well advised years ago about these costs, and now, 10 years later with the fall in the pound and many on a basic pension, it will cause a problem.
The big problem however is for the clients of Mountain Oaks and Procoal where there are embargos on the land due to the debts of the builders.
My opinion, as I have covered on my web site, is that the best way forward is for the residents affected to get together and try to lift the embargos, through a Terceria en Dominio.
This will take time and will cost money, but acting as a group the legal fees should not be too much.
In my opinion this is something the Town Hall should be arranging.
For Promar clients who are part of the Escrow accounts they have no financial liability because some years ago I arranged for all their debts to the builder to be pooled, which was possible because the total owed to the builder was large. This money is sufficient in my calculation to solve any problem.
There are however still a lot of legal and technical problems to overcome, which will take many months.
The residents have asked that I continue to undertake this responsibility, which I will do.
It is uncertain whether there will be enough over to help all the people will mortgages illegally taken out by Promar on their homes, and the around 100,000 euros Promar owe Arboleas residents for over payments.
Quote from: raysun on November 23, 2017, 10:07:55 AM
Yes great news indeed. Now lets have ongoing updates on the rest of the problems which are indeed massive and will really take some really hard work by the town hall to get sorted.
will take years i think.
However this is a great start so well done the town hall.
Correct,its a massive achievement and its going to give home a real start on the road to legality in very difficult times.
T H all we ask is to Keep us informed on your progress , which builders have been in to see the Mayor (when he is not out looking at roads ect) and as soon as possible tell the house holder what is the state of play for them, Information goes a long way to stop worry, as I was taught in the army at Hereford Worry is caused by lack of information, If you have the info you can do what you can do and forget what which you can not do, But worry never solved anything.
So live long and prosper. :kiss:
Roger............... if these villas are being registered for the first time then is tax due at the going rate for new villas after being valued with the tax office in Hurcal Overa.
just a genuine question or is the builder paying this if due if not who then picked the bill up.
All the builder should have registered the land with the land registry when they bought it as there was a change in ownership but then they would had to pay taxes on the land and they would not have wanted to do that . The new owners would then have only had to pay for the Villa including the land which is a lot less than just the land Tax, so I suppose you could say that all these builder in a way committed Tax fraud
Every case has to be looked at as a one off.
In my opinion, in principle, if the builder had registered ownership of the land, which he then sold as a contract for house and land together, then the house and plot should be registered as an obra nueva with a registration tax of 1.5%
This will be based on the catastro value times the current coefficient of 1.65.
The problem COULD oocur if the builder did not have registered ownership of the land.
In principle he should first register the land in his name, and pay 8% registration tax.
Since this is NOW urban land, a tyypical 600 m2 valuation will be 18,000 euros on which the 8% registration will be calculated.
NOTE
When the buildings are declared which in "principal" will be down to the "owners", tax of 1.5% will alo be levied on the value of the build........ this also needs to be considered and calculated with the Catastral values x the coefficient for Arboleas as well as what the owners are planning in the future as if a property, once "legalised", is to be sold, you need to consider posible CGT.....
Just an observation.......
Love the optimism that the builders will pay for anything. Good luck with that. Sorry to be negative, but probably realistic.
When innovation 13 was completed our builders (Graysan)told all their clients at the notary "we are not paying for this or that and if you don't like it then take us to court" as most had waited more than 12 years they no choice but to pay for everything. Nice people!!
They still get a lot of the contracts to do infrastructure around arboleas.
now i wonder why that is.??????
Quote from: Roger on November 23, 2017, 10:32:59 AM
I estimate it will cost the builders around 1000 euros per house for the various technical documents.
It will be more if they do not have registered escrituras for the land or enough land to cede to the Town Hall.
If the builders are not cooperative this could fall on the residents.
Then for the residents it will cost around 3000 to 4000 euros for the certificate of occupation and the notary and registration tax, not including lawyer's fees of around 1000 euros.
Some of this may be paid by the builders, but not likely.
They will then have to budget for back dated IBI, around 1000 euros.
A lot of this could possibly be paid in stage payments.
In total it is not a lot compared the value of the property. The problem for many is that they were not well advised years ago about these costs, and now, 10 years later with the fall in the pound and many on a basic pension, it will cause a problem.
The big problem however is for the clients of Mountain Oaks and Procoal where there are embargos on the land due to the debts of the builders.
My opinion, as I have covered on my web site, is that the best way forward is for the residents affected to get together and try to lift the embargos, through a Terceria en Dominio.
This will take time and will cost money, but acting as a group the legal fees should not be too much.
In my opinion this is something the Town Hall should be arranging.
For Promar clients who are part of the Escrow accounts they have no financial liability because some years ago I arranged for all their debts to the builder to be pooled, which was possible because the total owed to the builder was large. This money is sufficient in my calculation to solve any problem.
There are however still a lot of legal and technical problems to overcome, which will take many months.
The residents have asked that I continue to undertake this responsibility, which I will do.
It is uncertain whether there will be enough over to help all the people will mortgages illegally taken out by Promar on their homes, and the around 100,000 euros Promar owe Arboleas residents for over payments.
Roger, Do you know which land Procoal has embargoes on, I am aware of a problem with Seaviews 3 in Los Higuerales at one point but are you aware of other areas in Los Higuerales in particular?
FM
The only information I have regarding Procoal is the Los Garcias estate and the Clover estate in Limaria, all of which are subject to embargos.
I am not clear about your houses because the information on the file is not clear whether it includes you.
When I showed the document to the Mayor some time ago he thought it did not include your houses, but I would not bet on it.
The only other Procoal houses in Los Higuerales are the 3 in Calle Amapolas which should be OK because one of the owners took Procoal to court some years ago and has a court ruling that the land is no longer the property of Procoal.
Quote from: Victor Meldrew on November 25, 2017, 07:49:44 AM
When innovation 13 was completed our builders (Graysan)told all their clients at the notary "we are not paying for this or that and if you don't like it then take us to court" as most had waited more than 12 years they no choice but to pay for everything. Nice people!!
Would have been cheaper to make them disappear surely ?
Quote from: Roger on November 25, 2017, 15:30:09 PM
The only information I have regarding Procoal is the Los Garcias estate and the Clover estate in Limaria, all of which are subject to embargos.
I am not clear about your houses because the information on the file is not clear whether it includes you.
When I showed the document to the Mayor some time ago he thought it did not include your houses, but I would not bet on it.
The only other Procoal houses in Los Higuerales are the 3 in Calle Amapolas which should be OK because one of the owners took Procoal to court some years ago and has a court ruling that the land is no longer the property of Procoal.
Roger. When you say that the Clover estate in Limaria, all of which are subject to embargo's. We only know of 3 are you saying all 29 may have embargo's on them, as 12 villas have all there paperwork.
The houses in the estate which have their escrituras have no problem.
The rest are on a series of small fincas which overlap with teh plots, so they have to be grouped together to then segregate.
I have not seen the indivual escrituras in the name of Procoal, but I assume that the embargos will have to be removed before the rustic houses can be segregated.
In my opinion the residents should get together and consult a lawyer, preferably the lawyer which Procoal uses (MR), because he will be able to get copies of the escrituras for the fincas.
I understand that his advice at the moment is that he is waiting on a ruling from the European Court.
However this should be claified with him because I thought this only covers the powers of repossession, not the lifting of the embargo using a Terceria en Dominio.
If the residents want me to be involved I am prepared to, but not with the Town hall because the Mayor will not speak to me.
Thank you Roger, your help would be very much appreciated. If you need any info please pm or email me.