So - Answer This

[temasek]

Hmm ... shame ... poor thing.
:whistle:

[webejamin]

Fing that gets me is, people come to live in the UK, everything is great, then they get an urge to go to live elsewhere ??? that's OK, no problem there. According to his story, he wanted to follow his religion in a much deeper sense than he could in the UK, so off he goes ??? that's OK. He ends up in deep crap and for some reason it's our fault ??? Now if our enemy is a cruel enemy, with no rules or morals about how they treat prisoners, surely it's in our interest to adopt methods outside the standard Geneva convention kind of rules? as was said before "he's lucky the yanks got him" or he might have been treated a little bit harsher.
I'm sure he'll be monitored closely for his safety, and anyone else he comes into contact with for quite a few years, just to make sure he comes to no harm. :tiphat:   

[temasek]

Oo-er , Mrs,
I wouldn't dream of it , Liz .
:wave

[zilnor]

Temasek,  my surname is Winder. Hope you are not accusing me of being the troll.  :lol:

Webe, I tend to agree with you. I say why would this man take his wife and three young children to a war zone like Afghanistan ? As you say, play with fire and you will get burnt.

[temasek]

Does anyone else suspect that the Trolls are active again here and there ???
Some mighty strange posts at the moment.
Not to mention the winder  up  !!!
Do not feed the trolls !
Now where did I put my tin hat ?
:whistle:

[webejamin]

To be honest, I don't really care too much what happens to em, if they want to go to those kinda places, they're asking for trouble anyway. My mum always said "play with fire son and you're gonna get burnt" took me a while to learn, but I did. :whistle:

[JAW5]

So ask the question to America.

[ladyboyg1]

There's very little point in giving you a reasonable answer as you think you know it all :tiphat:

Never claimed to know it all, not sure where you got that idea from, I just have opposing views to yours, which must obviously be incorrect and not worthy of a reasonable reply.
So lets just leave it that we disagree....I personally don't think that it is acceptable to hold people prisoner for years without trial or charge,(regardless of race creed or ideology)........ and you do.

[MELEE]

There's very little point in giving you a reasonable answer as you think you know it all :tiphat:

[ladyboyg1]

So are you all saying it is acceptable to imprison and possibly torture innocent people without trial or charge ?

Is it also acceptable for ISIS to imprison innocent people without trial or charge and then decapitate them ?

GEman correct - but the bleeding hearts only see one side

Answer a question with a question.....always the easiest response when you can't actually think of a reasonable answer.
So basically because other people do it then it is OK for us to do the same????....really

[MELEE]

So are you all saying it is acceptable to imprison and possibly torture innocent people without trial or charge ?

Is it also acceptable for ISIS to imprison innocent people without trial or charge and then decapitate them ?

GEman correct - but the bleeding hearts only see one side

[zilnor]

GEman. Agreed, and burning victims alive. We stopped doing that in the UK three hundred years ago.

[Tetley]

Not Just ISIS .... how abought the Chop chops ,we sell allour Arms to and buy there Oil......apparently a young lad is to be crusified,then chop chopped...............fun for all the family........... :-X :-X

[GEman]

So are you all saying it is acceptable to imprison and possibly torture innocent people without trial or charge ?

Is it also acceptable for ISIS to imprison innocent people without trial or charge and then decapitate them ?

[jabba the cat]

The Uk is fast becoming a bleeding hearts club founded by do-gooders the BBC the media celebrity's and the bishops. :whistle:

[zilnor]

I guess it happens in all "civilised" countries Byrney.
Of course it is wrong , but the older I get the more disillusioned I am at the state of our world in the 21st century. Mankind has learned nothing about the horrors of warfare and IMO one lot will always be at war with another lot, torturing and killing often in the name of their God. It has gone on throughout history and it will never change. There will always be innocents caught up in other peoples conflicts. Unfair, but a harsh fact of life.
I personally do not believe the man we are discussing is an "innocent" but I agree that imprisoning anyone for years without trial is not right.

[byrney]

Totally agree with your sentiments Liz.  But, guilty or innocent, it is inhumane in any Society (especially an allegedly "modern thinking" one like the good old US of A) to incarcerate anyone for either 14 years or 24 hours without any charge - even if the gut feeling is that they were probably not up to much good!

Unfortunately this does not only happen in the USA, but also on UK soil.

[zilnor]

Ladyboy I am not saying it is right to put innocent people in prison without trial.
However, in this particular case this man has a questionable past . If you were a caring husband and father, why would you take your wife and three young children from the safety of England , to live in a war torn country like Afghanistan ?  Surely this rings alarm bells ? He claims to be there on behalf of a charity but it seems there is no proof of this.

[Tetley]

So are you all saying it is acceptable to imprison and possibly torture innocent people without trial or charge ?

Not really.... but wasent all this done befor in  Irealand over the years ? i thought it was just a government thing,like Burning Dresden or Gasing folks,its what Governments do.

i rember a UK Syrian family origin Doctor going to help in Siria,he was captured & tortured and killed by the Government there...........

the good news is for this chap.....is he got banged up by western forces and not his own... belivers........as per the Syrian UK Doc.

:tiphat:

[byrney]

No offence taken.  :tiphat:

[ladyboyg1]

MY apologies Byrney, my comment was not directed at you .

[byrney]

Eh?  How do you get that from my comment about never personally having met a lawyer with morals or scruples?

Of course, it is abhorrent to imprison people without a fair trial.  It is also abhorrent to torture people with, or without, a fair trial.  It is also abhorrent that Politicians from all sides have not sorted this out with our "friends" the Yanks before now, especially knowing the "special" relationship which certain Leaders have had with them....

[ladyboyg1]

So are you all saying it is acceptable to imprison and possibly torture innocent people without trial or charge ?

[byrney]

"There will always be some smart a*****d lawyer with no morals or scruples" - are there any other sort Sleepy J?  I have yet to have the pleasure of meeting one.

[zilnor]

Melee is right about this man being cleared for release some years ago. But he refused because he would have been sent to Saudi Arabia .
Why would he  not want to go there ? Suspicious or what ?
He should claim compo from the USA. Guess what, they will not give in to his demands.No doubt our lily livered government will, while there are thousands of homeless veterans struggling to survive in the UK , and the elderly who have worked and paid taxes for many years struggle  to pay their heating bills and but good food.

[ladyboyg1]

d in fact the read this , although quite what the statement has to do with anything I am unsure?
So how many years would you say it is acceptable to detain and possibly torture someone without charge?

[MELEE]

If you had read a previous post you would know that he was cleared to leave Guantanamo 8 YEARS AGO - he chose not to
no doubt because he would not get the free ticket in Saudi that he will certainly get here. HE WAS A PRISONER OF THE
AMERICANS NOT THE BRITISH why should we pay to make him a bloody millionaire.
My hubby and I and many more like us have worked all our lives and get nothing from the benefits system because we
paid into pension schemes, we are not entitled, but every tom dick and bloody harry foreigner comes here and suddenly
they've fell into the bloody honey pot and their cups runneth over.  So keep your bloody bleeding heart comments because
they do not interest me and many others

[ladyboyg1]

Held for 14 years without a charge , never seen his 13 year old child.British government implicit in torture and ill treatment.
I would have through that even the most mean spirited of people would recognize the injustice....but no not even this is enough for some.

[zilnor]

Portlum  ,  less than 45 years, more like 20.

[portlum]

If he gets a million, or whatever he gets, can we expect the spineless MPs, and Social Security Paymasters to demand that all the money his family and kids have been drawing on benefits for the last 15 years, and the cost of his private jet to fly him back to the UK be deducted.
All of the clans Passports be revoked, and they then be deported as  "Persona Non Grata."
Of course not. When ?? if ever will the UK Government grow a pair, if just one of Enoch Powell's predictions turns out to be correct, the country is just 45 years away from being taken over by Muslims.
   

[LisaD]

He was actually cleared to leave Guantanamo in 2007 - but he actually refused to return to Saudi Arabia
It is wholly down to him that he remained in prison!

I just don't understand why the British government have bowed to this pressure to accept him - the man is a citizen of Saudi and that is where he should go - if his family want to join him, then great, one less family of leeches that are being supported by the UK taxpayer

As to compensation, again I fail to understand why the British are involved in this - he should sue the US government surely?  Oh but of course his lawyers know that the US isn't stupid enough to give him a red cent.


The UK taxpayer has even paid for his private flight back to his hero's welcome in the UK - where all the bleeding heart do gooders are bleating on about how he is entitled to millions in compensation.

I would imagine Lee Rigby's family and families of many other true innocents feel the same - the difference is that their relatives were hanged or beheaded, not given access to human rights lawyers and medical treatment whenever they felt under the weather.

Innocent?  Of course he isn't and it is about time we stopped treading on eggshells because of his religion

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/shaker-aamer-guantanamo-and-the-questions-that-wont-be-asked/

http://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Britains-Last-Guantanamo-Detainee.pdf

[MELEE]

Bloody disgrace when the tory nobs and trying to cut tax credits for working families, they wouldn't have been in Guantanamo in the first place if
there had been nothing to link them to being a threat

[bomagdrink]

Brought back in a private jet, whose paying for that?.

news papers appearently .

[bomagdrink]

There will always be some smart a*****d lawyer with no morals or scruples who will fight for such a claim in return for a fat fee.

it was reported last night on Itv that 3 of these nice gentleman ..ex Guantanamo ..we're awarded by the British government approx 1mil each ..it would have cost more ( apparently ) to have contested their claim ..and would have ,according to the powers that bee ..have broken secret codes or other ...ahh sure they deserve the old 1mil each .

[Ian Young]

I remember someone on here some time ago said dont just moan about things, do something about it. So those that are still UK residents demand an answer to the original question from the Government. I think there is a system where a debate can be forced in the commons if enough people sign an online petition. UK tax payers have a right to know why they should pay compensation for US actions.