May vote out

[lmj52]

When we have regained control of our borders we can decide who does and who does not come in.
IF the French send boat loads across the channel we can and should refuse them permission to dock
and send the boats back across the channel.
I will be the first volunteer in the queue to give them a helpful little push to cast off :lol:

You truly believe this??? You are delusional.

[nic.spato]

Have to say, as much as I dislike Dodgy Dave and Posh George, they do have a finger on the economic pulse of the UK.
Now I'm sure that Boris (the semi professional clown)and Michael (I know what's best for the education system, even though I have never been a teacher) Gove will offer a different argument, but as it's been proved that their 350million per week to the EU claim is totally false, how seriously can we take their views.
As I said, a vote to leave is a leap in the dark and the Brexiteers really have no hard evidence to support their economic claims and as I see it, their whole strategy is based around a flawed immigration argument.
The EU is a far from perfect entity, but at least we kind of know our place within the system, albeit a flawed one.
I stand to be corrected, but not by an alternative view that relies on a vision of Little Britain that can reclaim borders and go back to the days of cream teas and cricket on the village green.

[PAULT]

Quote from the  todays Telegraph of all papers, pro brexit
It just gets worse.
"Brexit might trigger run on Britain's record financial debts, S&P warns
Britain is the world's most vulnerable state on a key measure of short-term debt and credit markets might suddenly seize up if voters opt for Brexit, Standard & Poor's has warned.
The US credit rating agency is crystal clear that Britain will be stripped of its coveted AAA status immediately and may face a double-barrelled downgrade if the country takes a leap in dark, jeopardizing its trading and financial ties to its biggest market.
"We are categorical about this," said Moritz Kraemer, the agency's head of sovereign ratings.
"There is no clear 'Plan B' in the UK and we are not going to wait until we find out what the British position actually is. We could potentially see a two-notch downgrade," he told The Daily Telegraph.
Mr Kraemer said the British financial system is extremely dependent on external financing. This is the Achilles Heel for an economy that relies so heavily on the City of London, and has a current account deficit above 5pc of GDP – the highest in Britain's peace-time history.
The level of debt coming due over the next 12 months is 755pc of the country's external receipts, the highest for all 131 sovereign states rated by S&P. This compares to 318pc for the US and 316pc for France, the next two states most exposed"

[Tetley]

I don't pretend to understand the finer points of the EU Brexit debate, there are loads of statements regarding the economy and immigration etc..........but taking a purely simplistic view based on the evidence put before us, it's a case of a vote to stay........we know sort of know what our future holds and a vote to leave........we don't.
I stand to be corrected, but as I see it, it's a leap in the dark and do we have enough info to confidently make that leap ?

This is it in a nutshell,we are living the EU  daily and it works,outside the EU  knowbody nows the score,as its un charted waters,the only thing gaurenteed is,it will be same snit diffrent government for your avrage Joe,trying to pay his rent or morguage IN or OUT.

:tiphat:

[nic.spato]

I don't pretend to understand the finer points of the EU Brexit debate, there are loads of statements regarding the economy and immigration etc..........but taking a purely simplistic view based on the evidence put before us, it's a case of a vote to stay........we know sort of know what our future holds and a vote to leave........we don't.
I stand to be corrected, but as I see it, it's a leap in the dark and do we have enough info to confidently make that leap ?

[zilnor]

I have had enough now, yawn yawn. Nothing I have seen or read since we were first promised a referendum has changed my mind. I will be voting out.
Roboman, the EU is indeed a dead horse. If the Brexit camp wins, a few other EU states will be demanding a referendum. This is why the grossly overpaid unelected bureaucrats and politicians are getting so anxious.
Bet Neil Kinnock and wifely are getting worried. They may lose their outrageous income ! It is worth voting out just to get rid of money grabbing leeches like them.  rofl rofl

[jabba the cat]

Roboman

Have to say you are on the ball best comment on here, it is about we the people being able to vote or elect governments in or out, Harriet Harman MP was shown pictures of the 5 commissioners who are not voted in office by anyone, the most powerful people in the EU and you know what she didn't even know who they were.                                                                                                                                              God and you boys want more of this go back to the Uk and see what's happening to your ex country
and then i may read and take your comments more seriously politicians more interested in their jobs than loyalty to their country and constituents,experts,media and of course the BBC  paid by the EU to sell the package to the plebs as people like to call them.
Basically they are in it for themselves and we should accept their findings well i for one are not listening to the bullshit i have put enough downloads on here for people to read but comments on them nil.

When i see 2 ex Prime Ministers standing together both with more skeletons in the cupboard then i know we are as a nation in trouble but up to now the people of the Uk can change its government of the day for better or worse in the EU you can not and you can believe me or not but it will only get worse.
What do they say Total power corrupts.   

[Tetley]

Oh Tetley are you going to model them rofl rofl

Roboman I sincerely hope you are right :lol: :lol: :lol:

Na MELLE ,il probably end up wi blokes thowing there Euro undies at me...........

[MELEE]

Oh Tetley are you going to model them rofl rofl

Roboman I sincerely hope you are right :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tetley]

Ive just ordered some darth vader undies that glow in the dark  ,for the beech patrol,that should frighten em.....

[Challenger 383]

Roboman :clap: :clap: :clap:

[roboman]

The vote is NOT about economics nor should it be, its about being able to elect our government and or dismiss them if we so choose to do. Andrew Neil made a fool of Hilary Benn and Osbourne, I would not trust that little creep one iota, this referendum may encourage more people to take an interest and have a desire to have their say. Europe has failed majestically to find a solution to the migrant crisis or any other crisis that has come along, the EU is a dead horse.    

[PAULT]

Did we keep the French out last time.
We could not even keep the Germanys out look at the royal familly and the archbishop of canterbury

[Challenger 383]

I'm not even going to list the catastrophic failures and poor judgements taken by some if not all of the very people extolling the virtues of the EU, I think their past acts speak for themselves.

It's going to be he who shouts the loudest that wins on the day.

Tetley, the invasion will take place whether we are in or out, it's still only 21 miles across, it's just a matter of time.

[Tetley]

 

A thought the French courts have ruled that they cannot penalise refugees for trying to get to the UK. When the EU sorry the UK leaves what is there to stop the French putting people in boats and pushing the in the direction of the UK. Two problems solved in on boat for the French

Fear not,the brxiteers will stand on the beaches,shouting,go on fizz of back ti yer own end.......plus Dave and Cris,can feel a few collers down at border force.....beech camp...

it el bi like 1066 re run   down souwth once it all kicks off.......... :crazy:

[MELEE]

When we have regained control of our borders we can decide who does and who does not come in.
IF the French send boat loads across the channel we can and should refuse them permission to dock
and send the boats back across the channel.
I will be the first volunteer in the queue to give them a helpful little push to cast off :lol:

[mowilliams143]

A thought the French courts have ruled that they cannot penalise refugees for trying to get to the UK. When the EU sorry the UK leaves what is there to stop the French putting people in boats and pushing the in the direction of the UK. Two problems solved in on boat for the French

[Tetley]

I was not going to make any further comments but feel compelled to. I have worked in financial services since 1973 so I have seen good times and bad times. I am trying to wind down and retire. Since 2003 I have been advising clients on pensions and investments. Thankfully I have made clients more money or protected what they had. Most of the large financial institutions would prefer to remain in the EU. The reason being the markets do not like uncertainty. The EU has many faults. However I think people do not appreciate the current situation. Inflation is low, borrowing rates are low, unemployment relatively low.
Whatever happens I still have to advise my clients and again try to protect what they have and/or grow their wealth.
A leave vote will make things more difficult, and will create the uncertainty that markets hate.
If things get bad, what I do not want to hear is people saying "if only someone had told me". Well you have been warned.
Please vote however you wish but be prepared for the consequences.

Correct,i cant wait till the Channel  rafter,s start turning up........that should be a taliking point..... :)

[lmj52]

I was not going to make any further comments but feel compelled to. I have worked in financial services since 1973 so I have seen good times and bad times. I am trying to wind down and retire. Since 2003 I have been advising clients on pensions and investments. Thankfully I have made clients more money or protected what they had. Most of the large financial institutions would prefer to remain in the EU. The reason being the markets do not like uncertainty. The EU has many faults. However I think people do not appreciate the current situation. Inflation is low, borrowing rates are low, unemployment relatively low.
Whatever happens I still have to advise my clients and again try to protect what they have and/or grow their wealth.
A leave vote will make things more difficult, and will create the uncertainty that markets hate.
If things get bad, what I do not want to hear is people saying "if only someone had told me". Well you have been warned.
Please vote however you wish but be prepared for the consequences.

[languagesolutions]

"All the experts are wrong" Are the experts the bully-boys that keep threatening and making us do what they want? Are they the same "experts" that caused the economic crisis, that destroyed Spain's social welfare and the country of Greece? Are they the ones who will force the TTIP on us all ? Now obviously we could try and change things from inside the Union, but the only ones who seem to be having a go are Podemos and co... the rest are just following the "experts". 2000€ a month per politician and going to work every day could be a good start  :lol:

[Tetley]

Rog
just buy a daily express and humour em,as you and the IFS are going to get know were with the Asylum seekers under the bed folks......

wi could do with Genral Mc arther back ,once this is sorted,then wi can do a bit of Red under the bed hunting as well really get the paranioa cranked up !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkXHsK4AQPs  get this on down the Big house Rog,get the Folks boogi in down the IBI office.....

[PAULT]

Roger Ok how does the economic arguement stack up when you have this person saying this.
"EU referendum: JCB chairman tells staff of Brexit support"
This company has 22 production sites world wide including several in the EU.
Of couse his business will not be affected by an exit so why is he trying to pursuade his staff to vote out.
It cannot be economics but it could be that he is one of the Conservative/conservative elite that rule the UK and sees the EU undermining that power and control.
So in that case I for one would vote against what he says on a personal basis
"The only thing that cannot be disputed is that the overwhelming technical opinion is that the UK will be better off economically if it stays in.
But to ignore the economic opinions is frankly stupid."
"I am not calling people stupid because they do not agree with me."
That is exactly what you said, your opinion is that there is an overwhelming opinion that the UK will be better off if the UK stays in, ergo anybody as you say ignore that fact is stupid.
I can call people stupid if they do not agree with me but then I do not care and I am not in politics.
The referendum is about the EU not the EEA and most comentators that I have listened to have not commented on the EEA situation. Probably most people are too poorly educated to understand the difference and are thought to be to thick by introducing another angle.
The good example is the one provided by you is that of the Blonde Bimbo, but then people seem to belive what he says without question.
Again you make the point that the leave brigade spout out that the experts are wrong, you can not say that is not the case.
Working UK families always suffer because ALL politicians lie and are are only there for what they can get out of it.
At least I have always been honest when helping people and tell them if I help them it is not only them that I am helping it is myself. If I am  successful I can act with an inflated opinion of myself and or I gain in some other way.

[Roger]

I am not calling people stupid because they do not agree with me.
What I said is that it is stupid to pretend that these economic opinions from almost every expert world wide do not exist.
What is perfectly reasonable is to decide that there are other issues which are for you more important than the economic projections.
What I find dishonest by the leave brigade is that they simply rubbish ALL the financial and economic advice, without saying what their economic projections are.

This is a leave campiagn based on rhetoric without any plan for the future.
In or out of the EEA? they will not say.
What about the finance sector?
Boris said in the past that it is dependant on membership of the EU.
Now he ignores this.
Personally I hate the fact that the UK is so dependant on the financial sector (80% of exports)
BUT it is a FACT and it cannot be changed overnight.

I do not have a vote, and I think that the effest on ex pats in Spain is exagerated.
BUT what I dislike is that the the leave campiagn seems not to care about how the average British family will suffer in the short term.
All they can say is, don't worry, all the experts are wrong.
It is not Boris and co who will suffer if the experts are right, it is the working UK families.

[Tetley]

How does everyone know that Britain will be economically worse off, it is an unknown. Or can you all see into the future.

Its not rocket science to grasp that if the UK  leaves,it will de stabalize the EU,wich will knock onto the UK.the only people with cyrstall balls seem to be the elite,manupulating the plebs..........

:tiphat:

[PAULT]

Sorry Roger you are drawing conclusions about the economics and technical opinion that cannot be "Fact".
The experts tell us all sorts of things that are bad for us, then the  same experts tell us the opinion has changed and those same things are good for us.
Economics are based on statistics and we know what they say about statistics
"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
Whilst I feel I am deciding which way to vote based upon my own understanding of the situation, I have to say that some of those feelings are based on who you do and do not like.
I would not vote for you because I do not like you, not that I disagree with what you say.
And calling people stupid because they do not agree with the you, because your argument is based on econimic arguments, indictates to me that you do not fully understand the points that the out brigade are putting forward.
It is very personal how you vote, not private which people seem to think means the same as personal.
It would seem that a better referendum would have been, what can we change to improve the UK,s partnership with Europe with a list of options.
Then again the press and the plebs left it up to politicians so what do you expect.

[PhillipJLloyd]

How does everyone know that Britain will be economically worse off, it is an unknown. Or can you all see into the future.

[Tetley]

Everyone in this debate is giving their own opinion.
You have to make up your own mind not based on personal likes or dislikes of the people on each side.
The only thing that cannot be disputed is that the overwhelming technical opinion is that the UK will be better off economically if it stays in.
Of course some people will vote for other reasons, not the economic ones. That is perfectly understandable.
But to ignore the economic opinions is frankly stupid.

Nutshell in A Rog ,plus the fact,the Brits whent 2 war twice in Europe,so its bloody silly running away,when we can change a failing fedral EU  from the INSIDE,and not shouting over the new steel UK  fence.........

the jobs barking,roll on the 23 and lets get the daily express Brexiters & elite back in EU  line.

:tiphat:

[Jo-JoB]

You have got to ask Osborne, exactly how many jobs have been lost in the UK since we joined and how many are attributed to the EU and it's policies and restrictions, redtape and free money to move whole factories aboard

Every organisation within British Government is renown for it's red tape, you cannot blame Europe for bureaucracy, the EU models itself on the UK system!!
I personally think every working man and woman should move to Europe, let all the migrants and refugees move to the UK, and then float the whole UK over to the yanks and let Trump deal with them!!  rofl rofl

[Challenger 383]

You have got to ask Osborne, exactly how many jobs have been lost in the UK since we joined and how many are attributed to the EU and it's policies and restrictions, redtape and free money to move whole factories aboard

[Roger]

Everyone in this debate is giving their own opinion.
You have to make up your own mind not based on personal likes or dislikes of the people on each side.
The only thing that cannot be disputed is that the overwhelming technical opinion is that the UK will be better off economically if it stays in.
Of course some people will vote for other reasons, not the economic ones. That is perfectly understandable.
But to ignore the economic opinions is frankly stupid.

[PAULT]

The following is a quote from todays Guardian
"Osborne: voting for Brexit means embracing Farage's divisive vision
His( osborne) blunt approach was a sign that Britain Stronger in Europe is seeking to hone and simplify its economic message in the final days of the campaign. It unveiled a poster on Wednesday that is going to be used on billboards across the country, which simply states "out of Europe, out of work" on top of an image of shutters"

Osbourne saying Farage and the out brigade are divisive must be questionable, this coming from a member of the one of the governments with the most divisive policies in recent times.

Most of the shutters they used for the images of posters must come from towns that their policies have turned into deserts.

How can I believe anything this man says so maybe I will vote out.