GONE BUST !!! MONTE SAN JUAN IN SAN JUAN DE LOS TERREROS

[San Juan]

Sent PM

[Belfastchamp]

Hi

I know this is a long shot.  Would anyone know any further info about the Monte San juan villas and apartments in San Juan de Los terreros?  Any info would be most appreciated.

Best wishes
Linda

[mimosas]

Here is an interesting post on http://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-14863.aspx

Dear Sr. Rajoy

Congratulations on becoming the new Spanish President.

Our website and petition - www.bankguaranteesinspain.com - is representing all those innocent people who attempted to purchase an off-plan property in your wonderful country.

Unfortunately due to the lack of supervision by the Banco de España and the systemic corruption in the Property and Banking Sectors we are now victims of Bank Guarantee Abuse.

Our off-plan deposits have been stolen by the corrupt developers and negligent Banks.  LEY 57/1968 has not been enforced and the Banco de España has failed in its role as the SUPERVISOR OF THE SPANISH BANKING SYSTEM.

Your court system is overloaded and cannot deal with the number of cases.  On many occasions Judges are failing to apply LEY 57/68 correctly in their judgements.

LEY 57/68 was introduced in 1968 to protect the purchaser from the abuses and corruption in the property sector.  The rights granted to us by LEY 57/68 are 'Caracter de irrenunciables'.  Our rights have been violated.

In your 100 Proposals for Change you make several references to transparency, trustworthiness, credibility and consistent justice.  For example:

"A modern state must guarantee values of certainty, legal security and legal trust"

"rigorous tackling of many of the problems which have so far been ignored"

"We must restore our trustworthiness and credibility in the world"

"greater answerability backed up by full transparency"

Your document concludes by stating:

"We must recover our leading role abroad as a reliable, dependable and respected partner. The economic and institutional reforms we are going to undertake will contribute to international respect for Spain and its international role as an advanced Western democracy that is committed to freedom, democracy and the defence of human rights"

To achieve this you must immediately tackle Off-Plan Bank Guarantee Abuse and ensure LEY 57/1968 is enforced in all cases – past, present and future.

During the past year we have been in contact with the advisors of the former Housing Minister - Sra. Beatriz Corredor.

We look forward to working with your Housing Minister, Minister for the Treasury and Minister for Economic Affairs and Competitiveness to ensure that Off-Plan Bank Guarantee issues are resolved and measures are put in place so this corruption and abuse can never happen again.

Please take a look at our website - www.bankguaranteesinspain.com - and feel free to contact me by email:  keith@bankguaranteesinspain.com

Kind regards 

Keith

BANK GUARANTEES IN SPAIN ACTION GROUP

[mimosas]

Please view this article on www.tumbit.com

http://www.tumbit.com/news/articles/3651-bank-lawyers-and-developers-profit-through-expat-misery.html

Let's hope the net starts to close in on the inappropriate behaviour of banks, lawyers, developers and administrators (when a firm is in trouble).

[mimosas]

Update on the fate of the Monte San Juan Properties -

http://www.viva-almeria.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=105149#105149

Following a visit to Almeria this week we have determined that the entire site of 43 fully built detached Villas and 25 fully built Apartments was sold by the Cajamar Bank to a local businessman for 1 million euros.  

This guy evidently made a killing because he sold it on immediately to a Developer for 2 million  !!

Taking the 43 Villas alone for 1 million euros works out at a staggeringly LOW 23,000 EUROS FOR EACH VIRTUALLY COMPLETED DETACHED VILLA ON A 300M2 PLOT 3 MINUTES WALK AWAY FROM THE BEACH IN SAN JUAN DE LOS TERREROS.  Come on Cajamar Bank - this stinks to high heaven - who has had their hand in the till ????

The Apartments are now for sale for between 70 and 80,000 euros.

All the Villas are to be utilized for social housing for Spanish nationals.  

So effectively the ex pat community has been taken for a ride by Spanish lawyers, Spanish Banks, Spanish Judiciary and are now funding housing for the Spanish Government.

Villa buyers all paid between 80,000 and 140,000 euros in stage payments for these properties before the developer was placed in administration by Cajamar Bank and will not receive a cent back.

Flip the coin to how we deal with things in the UK - During the recent London disturbances the Spanish mother of a convicted rioter threatened with eviction from her UK COUNCIL HOME protested and asked ''where are my human rights''.  There was an outcry from the public, she was filmed by TV crews and even her local member of parliament came out in support of her.  She has not lost her UK COUNCIL HOME for which she probably pays a pittance. if anything. in rent.

SO WHERE ARE OUR HUMAN RIGHTS ???

No, we would not dare upset anyone in the UK BUT IT'S PERFECTLY OK TO RIP OF THE BRITS ABROAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's about time we saw some strong action from our Government.

Makes my blood boil

[Kendo1]

My family have been here for nearly 6 years now, I can't name the lawyer yet as I don't have enough posts on the forum but although not as bad as others, we had real problems with this one.  Initially we were promised everything and bombarded with calls from their english rep as all of us were moving out, us, my sister-in-law, father and mother-in-law.  After the first builder left the site unfinished, another was ' contracted ' however without our knowledge plans for the houses were changed from the initial design.  My father-in-law died not long after christmas and within a week we received an email from the lawyer saying they were sorry about the loss but they needed more money sent over from us as the builder needed it.  >   The reply email was duly sent asking who they were representing, us or the builder.  The lawyer took two large sums of money out of the account to pay for the pool, there was only one payment to be taken and they admitted there had been a mistake however next thing the architect said he was keeping the money as it was to pay for the surrounding walls, although they had been included initially !!!!  We contacted the lawyer repeatedly but...yes....it looks like the money will not be repaid.   >  One house was completed and the other two dragged on.  We had no electrecity for months and then were put onto builders electricity, sharing with the other three houses on the ' development ', I counted 29 power cuts in one night alone.  We had asked for outside power points which they had not bothered to do and after repeated complaining they were installed,,,,right under the drain points from the upstairs patios so whenever it rained...yes...more power cuts.  There were numerous other problems and we repeatedly tried to have the solicitor sort them out with the builder.   :head  After a year of being put off I contacted the rep in England who was ' surprised ' however  I will give him his due as he contacted them and gave them an earful.  Next week we had the architect, estate agent and the builder at the houses to sort out the problems.....then the builder did a runner.    :head Most of the problems have now been sorted but the roadways have still not been concreted, therefore when it rains, the soil erodes leaving large tyre bursting ruts and the road level is well below the kerb now.  My neighbour and I have filled in the ruts temporarily twice at our own expense as contacting the lawyer was useless, we keep being told it will be next month, then the month after that, etc.  The solicitor is on holiday now but on their return I will be camping out in their front foyer every day if necessary.  It really is about time either the Spanish Governmenr brought in legislation or the EU forced them to do so in order that lawyers and builders are liable for their wrongdoing.  If I am doing anything else in future I will definetely rather use a UK solicitor.  I realise our problems are rather minimal compared to the other nightmares however I would advise everyone to be extremely careful which lawyer you use if doing ANYTHING in Spain.

[Saffi]

Is there not a case for fraud then - if a bank issued a mortgage on an asset listed as 6000 only - but then oh no mortgages in Spain are not like that, they are in fact nothing more than a loan that stays with you forever unless officially cleared.......

[optomist]

We watched a program recently, possible Homes From Hell , We felt sorry for the one guy on the program , he was clearly a victim of Bad timing more than anything else . He was covered by a Bank Guarantee , the terms of which stated that it ceases at the point a Building was signed off . His Property was completed and signed off however he quite rightly refused to take possession of his home as he felt some of the finishing workmanship was unacceptable so the building legally remained the property of the building company . A short time later the building company went bust .The bank legally seized the property companies assets which natural still included his . The cost of the remedial work as estimated by in independent assessor was in the region of 20,000 , a small sum in comparison to his loss . Really bad timing , if only he had taken possession and denounced the builders later he would at least have had the home he paid for .

[SIGMA]

We had a mortgage of over 100,000 and were told that we had no comeback with the bank as the mortgage was on the land!! We paid a returnable 10%, based on getting the mortgage to ensure the property was legal!!!  :head :head
Land was 6,000 on escritura !!!!

[mimosas]

I have sent you a PM as requested

[Saffi]

Can you pm me the name of the lawyer in this case please?

[mimosas]

Thank you for that very informative post.  One of our group contacted Laura Stevens of Homes from Hell immediately and had a long discussion about the loss of 43 Villas and 25 Apartments (already built) in San Juan de los Terreros, the folding of the Developer Prolacon Mar and the Lawyer's negligence in ensuring Bank Guarantees were in place before handing over 50% deposits entrusted to them by each buyer.

ITV has finished filming on the current series of Homes from Hell and hope to be in touch with us early next year.

Sounds promising, so thank you for the point in the right direction.

[barry]

please write to this link, we must educate these filth.. http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=700655

laura.stevens@itv.com

[cyborg]

I am of course presuming you mean 2010 !!! NOT 2001.

[cyborg]

AMZ. I'm very pleased that you had a successful purchase. Many do, and many do not. It's the proportion of people that have trouble that is of major concern. I'm not suggesting you will have any trouble in the future, but many have felt the same as you, only for something nasty to creep up on them five years later. Everything will probably be fine, and i hope that you have a great life in your new home. It's good to hear a success story now and again, amongst all the doom and gloom. :clap:

[AMZ]

Feb 2001 took week of work 4 days looking at property in Murcia 2 days looking round Albox offer made by end of bussines on 2nd day in Albox, deposit paid next day and back to uk
Completion last week of May 2001. No problems. Now 4 years living here full time. No problems

[cyborg]

You cannot trust ANY Spanish bank. PERIOD.

WHY ? The following are examples of bank actions to friends and myself that i know to be true.

1) Bank manager reducing the term of a mortgage by two thirds without telling the client or the notary. Admitted in front of witnesses. Prosecution pending for fraud. Papers served.

2) Bank transferring 120.000€ without permission to another account. NOT the Spanish customers. Court decided in clients favour, and bank made to pay compensation. Figure not disclosed but rumoured to be double the amount transferred.

3) As above only 24.000€. Same result. Different bank than aforementioned.

4) As above only 12.000€. UK client. Prosecution pending for theft. Papers served. Different bank than aforementioned two cases.

5) Bank manager harrassing UK client at his / her home. Denounced to Guardia Civil. Papers served. Prosecution pending.

6) Bank manager telling client that family member cannot be added to mortgage as it is illegal. Total lie. Basically they want the house to sell for a huge profit. Action in process. Different bank.

7) Bank charging 2000€ to close bank account.

Several bank managers, trying to get estate agents to sell houses up for repossesion, exclusively through the manager so they can earn a commission on top of what they earn from the bank. This was before the owners had had the chance to try and rectify the situation. For one particular agent, this was the last straw and he packed it in.

I cannot agree, that it is not the banks fault in cases where they lend money, without checking the builders, the architect, the land registry etc. That is their job. They are also supposed to protect thier customers whilst they fleece them for every euro they can get.

Then of course you have the solicitors who are'nt qualified. English female for one, and Spanish male for another. Both of whom have caused untold damage to UK and Spanish clients alike.

Non qualified Spanish solicitor, also insurance agent, issuing back dated insurance certificate to cover the date of an accident where client was at fault.

Qualified lawyer telling client all legal and above board for house, whilst telling his wife in Spanish in the same conversation, that the house was illegal, but would be regularised in 4 or 5 years, and as the client was English it did'nt matter ! He did'nt realise that the English person accompanying the client spoke fluent Spanish. When he had finished, the clients friend advised the lawyer to go to the bank then and there, collect all the deposit money and lawyers fees, and return the money to the client immiediately, whilst he held onto the paperwork for evidence. Needless to say, this is exactly what happened. Lucky client.

There are some very good Spanish lawyers, but do not expect anything to be done quickly. They have to put up with the Spanish system themsleves, which is sloooow, to put it mildly, inaccurate in the extreme, and as embarrassing for the lawyer as it is frustrating for the client. And please, please remember, that the Spanish are as much victims as we are in this. The only difference is that they are used to it. Don't expect anything to change this side of 2050 !!!

Beautiful country, with great people, ruined by massive corruption, and an adminastrative system stiil emerging from the dark ages. 808

[digifidd]

Professional is not a word that applies to the Spanish (lawyers, notaries, banks, town halls etc) I'm afraid!  They just don't do the jobs that they are paid for!

While you are at it, add basura company, water companies and electricity companies to the list as well!

[Dionysus]

Unfortunately for us, we are in a similar situation, although the amount involved is not so large by comparison. With regard to the bank guarantee, the information we were given was, the initial deposit paid to the bank, would be set aside in an account set up by the bank, which could not be accessed by the developer. In other words, your money, no one else can touch it, this is backed up by law.

Even where a bank guarantee exists, the banks have been refusing to honour the agreement and have witheld the return of deposited funds, in the case of developers defaulting on their commitments to the bank.
To withold the purchasers deposit, is in fact illegal but, the problem is, no one wants to deal with it because the sums involved run in to millions of euros and there are fears that if the banks did comply, there would be a crisis of confidence in the banking system in Spain!

And just for the record, the bank that has our money? It's the Cajamar!

[WhoWhatWhere?]

Solicitor is to blame here, not the bank. Cajamar have clearly mortgaged and financed the build, and when the developer stopped payng the mortgage they have repossessed the properties. The purchasers probably put up 30% and the bank the other 70%. Plus a mortgage is a charge against the property, whereas a private purchase contract is exactly that, PRIVATE.

The purchasers should have been issued with BG's. I sympathis with everyone who has lost money in these off-plan developments but it is not the banks fault that the developer did not run their business correctly and conform to legality.

[Saffi]

For me it all boils down to the same old thing here in Spain - no one with a professional responsibility to protect the legal rights of their clients is ever accountable - not solicitors and not the Notary.  Surely they have professional indemnity/public liability insurance to cover these kinds of scenarios?

IF those in whom we are required to trust, ie the LEGAL professionals, not friends and not Estate Agents, were held accountable I think we would see a huge rise in professional standards

[here4ever]

These days I think the safest place to keep your money is under the mattress! The bank can't pinch or 'lose' it and the taxman can't see it. Just don't tell anyone what you're doing - walls (and fresh air) have ears!

[Suej]

I know they don't do a lot for their money but shouldn't the notary also be ensuring that the bank guarantee exists, if not how is an individual suppose to be sure.

Sue

[judi bk]

His assets are seized - including cash and uncompleted properties, and sold on behalf of preferred creditors,eg the banks.  Is that about right?

That's right Norman except the taxman gets the first bite - VAT, PAYE, corporation tax etc

[NormanM]

Really sad to see yet more people losing out.  Disgusting. Leaving aside the useless advice given to them by their lawyers, what happens in the UK if a builder goes bust?

His assets are seized - including cash and uncompleted properties, and sold on behalf of preferred creditors,eg the banks.  Is that about right?

If it is, it's hardly a reason to pillory Cajamar who might just be seen as acting like any UK bank, protecting the assests of those who bank with them.  Please, If I'm wrong about this, let me know.

I am not a stranger to this situation - the same happened to me in Cyprus in the 1980's when we lost years of savings in an almost identical situation.

[Dionysus]

This is not an isolated case, nor is it the only one to involve the Cajamar bank!
The Spanish government and Banco de España have the responsibility of regulating how the banks in Spain conduct their business. And it has been stated that both these bodies are aware that the banks in Spain have been acting illegally in witholding purchasers deposits and it seems the practice is pretty widespread!

I believe this whole issue has been brought to the attention of the EU, to seek some sort of resolution to the illegal actions of the banks involved, but as this also involves Spain's national bank, any such resolution, could be a long time coming, if it should come at all!

[gwilym]

If this is the case' we should organize and very publically close our Cajamar accounts in Arboleus, then Zurgena, then Albox etc etc etc

Several hundred of customers, all trying to close their accounts at the same time would not only create harmful publicity for the bank, but would also prevent them doing any other business for days on end!....and just maybe get some justice done!

...and if you haven't got a Cajamar account to close, then perhaps you should open one

as I say we need to organize - I find Cajamar pretty good generally for my current account - but needs as needs must!

[mimosas]

YET ANOTHER HORROR STORY ABOUT A DEVELOPMENT IN SAN JUAN DE LOS TERREROS. IT'S ABOUT TIME THE BRITISH FOREIGN OFFICE STEPPED IN

http://www.viva-almeria.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=105149#105149