Devolution Thread

[NormanM]

Tetley - as they say in Inverness, "You hauderhim an' Ah'll heiderhim"

[Karen4]

Hopefully they will now  fully intergrate and speek  English   ;D

Morning Sasanaks   ;)

That is the best thing I have read so far today!  :rofl:

[Tetley]

Hopefully they will now  fully intergrate and speek  English   ;D

Morning Sasanaks   ;)

[webejamin]

Anyone that thinks it's all going to go away is mistaken. There are so many problems in the pipeline, now that all those promises have to be kept, plus the voting age issue, I don't think that one will be going away :crazy: The Tories will do their best to dumb it all down now and concentrate on keeping power, will Camo be booted out after his "victory" ??? The other thing is, will the Scotts go for it again? yes, probably :tiphat:
I hope the Labour party get wise and grab the opportunity to put the UK back on it's feet, together.
Well done Scotland :tiphat:     

[byrney]

Excellent news - especially Cameron's commitment to allowing the Scots, Welsh and Irish to handle more of their own affairs and let their Politicians make decisions on their part of the Union.

Even better news though, his commitment to ensure that English Politicians make decisions on English issues.  I wonder what Mr Milliband feels about that when he realises the full impications?  :whistle:

Let's hope that the "Celebrity "Yes" Tweeters" go back in their little boxes again after their fifteen seconds of fame on the Political front - looking forward to Murray's welcome at Wimbledon next year!

[Karen4]

Thank goodness for that. I have just seen the result.

[ramblarider]

Looks like common sense has prevailed....

They're staying.

[lmj52]

Hogs I thought I recognised this:
Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty
Wi bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murdering pattle.

I'm truly sorry man's dominion
Has broken Nature's social union,
An' justifies that ill opinion
Which makes thee startle
At me, thy poor, earth born companion
An' fellow mortal!

I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
A daimen icker in a thrave
'S a sma' request;
I'll get a blessin wi' the lave,
An' never miss't.

Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin!
It's silly wa's the win's are strewin!
An' naething, now, to big a new ane,
O' foggage green!
An' bleak December's win's ensuin,
Baith snell an' keen!

Thou saw the fields laid bare an' waste,
An' weary winter comin fast,
An' cozie here, beneath the blast,
Thou thought to dwell,
Till crash! the cruel coulter past
Out thro' thy cell.

That wee bit heap o' leaves an' stibble,
Has cost thee monie a weary nibble!
Now thou's turned out, for a' thy trouble,
But house or hald,
To thole the winter's sleety dribble,
An' cranreuch cauld.

But Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

Still thou are blest, compared wi' me!
The present only toucheth thee:
But och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!

I was in hospital yesterday and there was a man shouting this out. I thought he was mad until I realised it was the "serious Burns unit". :lol: :lol:

[webejamin]

That's the kind of democracy in store for the Scotts. Makes me laugh when Salmond says, "Scotland belongs to you, vote yes to run your own Scotland"
The Scottish people won't be "running" Scotland, only Scottish politicians, same as everywhere else :tiphat:

[PhillipJLloyd]

Not sure of the reasons behind this, but it amazes me that:
Scottish people born and bred, but living outside the country can't vote.
But
Any over nationality living in Scotland can. (Are their any restrictions on these, eg. length of time in Scotland, do they pay tax, N.I. number, even a job ??
Very confused over the whole thing, will it really affect the ordinary people of Scotland ??

[Tetley]

It's all irrelevant anyway as it's going to be a "No" vote - the majority of Scots aren't so daft as to vote "Yes".  Of course, I might be eating my words tomorrow morning!

ditto on that bryns ,history could be made today,then we will be in for years of political & financel & legal wranglings at great expence...... again to the tax payers on both sides of the new electronic wall.

morning citizens... :tiphat:

[webejamin]

Think the "may" bit was seen as "might" not "that awful woman"  ??? could be wrong though ???
Mornin all :tiphat:

[ramblarider]

One would hope so.

Sadly, I think this all shows two things.

1. Politicians might expect people to vote in a referendum (Scotland, EU) on a rational basis, having weighed all the evidence carefully. However, they actually vote without even knowing or understanding the facts and implications, and on an emotive basis. I find that quite scary, because even those of us who don't get a vote can find our lives changed by the outcome. Not good at all.

2. Nationalism is not a good thing. It is far too easy to manipulate "the masses" with nationalism (and religion). You see some of this in the Scottish situation, with attacks and abuse being hurled at those of a different view.... and a lot of racist, anti-English feeling coming to the surface. Very primitive... and "charismatic" politicians have always been very good at using this kind of thing. It also (invariably) generates an equal and opposite reaction - so you are now hearing anti-Scottish rumblings from "British Nationalists"..... not good either. It is that kind of thing that leads to wars - civil or otherwise.

[byrney]

It's all irrelevant anyway as it's going to be a "No" vote - the majority of Scots aren't so daft as to vote "Yes".  Of course, I might be eating my words tomorrow morning!

[ramblarider]

Ramblarider - we remain divided on the interpteratio n of the relevant statute. May was not "stating facts" at all.

1. She was absolutely correct, factually, when she stated that an independent Scotland would no longer be part of the UK.

2. This was in answer to the suggestion that "of course Scottish Citizens would be able to retain a UK passport".

Unfortunately, the statutes you keep referring to simply would not apply. They only apply to UK Citizens, which those born in Scotland would cease to be - unless they could manage to arrange dual nationality for themselves on some basis or another. You could look at this from another angle. Why would the UK give all Scottish citizens UK passports and nationality? Will Scotland give all English, Welsh and NI citizens Scottish passports and nationality in return? Or are you expecting a one-way street on that? If so, I think you will be disappointed.

[macc]

Looks like if Scotland does leave, the Shetland Islands have different ideas of their own.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/17/shetland-may-reconsider-place-scotland-yes-vote-alistair-carmichael

They may want independence from Scotland - and they'll take a huge percentage of the oil with them.

"A petition of more than 1,000 signatures raised by islanders from Shetland, Orkney and the Western Isles calling for a separate referendum on whether they could themselves become independent was rejected last month by the Scottish government, which said it had promised new powers to the three island groups"

Suddenly Salmond is not so keen on devolution...

And the reason this has not been highlighted during the debate by the No side and the MSM, is because it is bullshit and a silly argument. Salmond is not so keen on devolution, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: on planet RR maybe. Well we will all know tomorrow anyway, so the best of luck to all the Sottish people wanting what is best for the future of their country and children.   http://www.shetnews.co.uk/features/scottish-independence-debate/9293-shetland-news-says-yes-to-independence

[NormanM]

Ramblarider - we remain divided on the interpteratio n of the relevant statute. May was not "stating facts" at all.

Hogs - slainte!

[ramblarider]

Looks like if Scotland does leave, the Shetland Islands have different ideas of their own.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/17/shetland-may-reconsider-place-scotland-yes-vote-alistair-carmichael

They may want independence from Scotland - and they'll take a huge percentage of the oil with them.

"A petition of more than 1,000 signatures raised by islanders from Shetland, Orkney and the Western Isles calling for a separate referendum on whether they could themselves become independent was rejected last month by the Scottish government, which said it had promised new powers to the three island groups"

Suddenly Salmond is not so keen on devolution...

[Tetley]

I understand his spouse is alien..... :alien:

she has probably represented a few   ;)

anyway if the scots & english leave the EU  i can see a nice buisness line in arranged marriges to southern irish EU  passport holding ladys   ;)  (or chaps   ;D )

[Karen4]

I understand his spouse is alien..... :alien:

[Tetley]

So, again, if people born in Scotland will no longer be British citizens, where does that leave Tony Blair? Hopefully shipped off to the Middle East so he can continue to be their peace envoy....

if his spouse is english he should be ok ,unless of course England jumps over the EU  cliff as well in a couple of years time.................... ;)

[Karen4]

So, again, if people born in Scotland will no longer be British citizens, where does that leave Tony Blair? Hopefully shipped off to the Middle East so he can continue to be their peace envoy....

[lmj52]

I am Scottish by birth.  British by nationality, indeed, proud to be so..  I am astounded that the Home Secretary could stoop to threatening to withdraw the passports of those several thousand of us Scots who live in Spain or other foreign parts, and have not even been granted a vote by those in power over the future of our country of birth. It seems to be fine for jihadists to hold a UK passport, but not for us.

She was not 'stooping', or making 'threats'. She was pointing out facts. If Scotland leaves the UK, those who are Scottish by birth will no longer be UK citizens. It is pretty simple.

As for not being given a vote, I totally agree. I believe it was the Scottish politicians who vetoed that. I would be fuming if my rights were taken away like that without so much as a chance to vote on it. It really is pretty disgraceful.

I foresee an awful lot of very angry Scottish ex-pats if the vote is 'Yes' tomorrow - once the reality of it sinks in, and things they can do now become impossible in 18 months time. As Rajoy was saying today, their chances of EU membership are not good at all - and he has a veto which could stop them in their tracks for years, which I have no doubt he would use as a warning to the Catalans.



RR People just don't get it do they!!
I have read and agreed with all your posts. If they do vote Yes i hope they will accept the consequences!!  :drinks:

[Tetley]

Salmond said last night the YES had  ,had a lot of support from ex pats to vote yes ,I Dont think the bloke could lay streight in bed.

:tiphat:

I suspect if he really had, he'd have made sure they had a right to vote!

Turkey's generally do not vote for Christmas, however.

He did RR under questions from Adam Bolton ,i sent a question in asking abought EU  ex pats free movment & medical if its a yes vote, but he never asked that one........  :whistle:

(using  correct spelling & gramer  :) )

[ramblarider]

Salmond said last night the YES had  ,had a lot of support from ex pats to vote yes ,I Dont think the bloke could lay streight in bed.

:tiphat:

I suspect if he really had, he'd have made sure they had a right to vote!

Turkey's generally do not vote for Christmas, however.

[Tetley]

Salmond said last night the YES had  ,had a lot of support from ex pats to vote yes ,I Dont think the bloke could lay streight in bed.

:tiphat:

[ramblarider]

I am Scottish by birth.  British by nationality, indeed, proud to be so..  I am astounded that the Home Secretary could stoop to threatening to withdraw the passports of those several thousand of us Scots who live in Spain or other foreign parts, and have not even been granted a vote by those in power over the future of our country of birth. It seems to be fine for jihadists to hold a UK passport, but not for us.

She was not 'stooping', or making 'threats'. She was pointing out facts. If Scotland leaves the UK, those who are Scottish by birth will no longer be UK citizens. It is pretty simple.

As for not being given a vote, I totally agree. I believe it was the Scottish politicians who vetoed that. I would be fuming if my rights were taken away like that without so much as a chance to vote on it. It really is pretty disgraceful.

I foresee an awful lot of very angry Scottish ex-pats if the vote is 'Yes' tomorrow - once the reality of it sinks in, and things they can do now become impossible in 18 months time. As Rajoy was saying today, their chances of EU membership are not good at all - and he has a veto which could stop them in their tracks for years, which I have no doubt he would use as a warning to the Catalans.

[NormanM]

I am Scottish by birth.  British by nationality, indeed, proud to be so..  I am astounded that the Home Secretary could stoop to threatening to withdraw the passports of those several thousand of us Scots who live in Spain or other foreign parts, and have not even been granted a vote by those in power over the future of our country of birth. It seems to be fine for jihadists to hold a UK passport, but not for us.

I was a waverer. I tried to weigh the options, and for the most part, heart said "Yes" and brain said "No."

The final straw, for me, was the pathetic attempt at bribery by Cameron et al.  Stay with us and we will give you all sorts of little goodies.

In1791, Robert Burns wrote

"But pith and power, till my last hour,
I'll mak this declaration;
We're bought and sold for English gold-
Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!"

And here comes Cameron trying on the same trick

For me, that was it.

[Tetley]

apparently Kay burleys has just called a yes person a knob  :o  and the EU  chappies have deffintly said no way jose on Scotland joining theeU on its own.

O0

[Karen4]

Soooo, since Tony Blair was born in Scotland and was, arguably, the architect of the current debacle,will he have to have a Scottish passport if it's a "yes" vote tomorrow? Will he be (more of) and alien (than usual) in the world? Will his pension be affected?  I wonder?

[lmj52]

Personally don't really like Gordon Brown, made too many mistakes in Government, but he gave one hell of a speech today!!
:tiphat: :tiphat: :handshake

[Tetley]

;D After a second glance at the picture, it looks more like something completely different  :o ;D

yer jams,its scampi   :king:  :queen:

[webejamin]

 ;D After a second glance at the picture, it looks more like something completely different  :o ;D

[bobthelook]

The answer to all these difficult questions...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/scottish-independence-man-finds-piece-4270767 Reassuring to see pages of newspapers devoted to such intelligent and informative analyses......

IMO it's fowl journalism - - - ;)

[lmj52]

;D Looks like wales has gone too, all but a little pimple :o That picture must be an omen ;D

OOps! I don't think wales will go for independence. But will have interesting discussions on why Scotland is to have more powers. :whistle: :handshake